tool to handle grain orientation?

[mike holden]

Just viewed the homemade tool mishap and the consensus seems to be operator error combined with insufficient tool insertion.
But it brought to mind another question.
My question is this: What is the correct orientation of the handle wood grain versus the cutting edge of the tool?
Or doesn't it matter?
Mike

[David Christopher]

the grain should run the lenth of the handle..and up and down while cutting......if was across the handle it would break easily

[Paul Atkins]

I usually put the prettiest side up. I have done it all ways (except short grain lengthwise), and have not had problems either way.

[mike holden]

David, Paul,
Thanks for the quick responses.
Grain running vertical eh? Huh, would have guessed horizontal.
Glad I asked!
Mike

[Mike Golka]

Same principle as a baseball bat. Wood is strongest when the force applied is at 90 degrees to the ring structure.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

If the same theory as a bat, then wouldn't the grain be horizontal, since the forces are down into the tool rest?

I never even gave it a thought before now..... I also made a rougher clone, but I used maple, and since I have big hands, my handle is pretty hefty. I hope I don't have a breakage problem. I'll check the handle. I did drill the hole crooked, so this may be an excuse to make a second one, since I kinda botched this one up... 12 inch handle on a 14 inch lathe, no fit with the drill chuck. Had to use my drill press. Actually, the crooked hole comes in handy when trying to rough out around a corner....

[mike holden]

Okay,
Now I am confused.
Is it grain vertical (David) or grain horizontal (Mike G)?

anyone else want to weigh in here?

Mike

[RL Johnson]

They are saying the same thing. Mike G. is saying that the woodgrain needs to be 90 degrees to the tool rest where all the forces are transmitted. Which makes the woodgrain run the length of the handle like David said.

[Richard Bell CA]

Mike:

I agree that everyone who has expressed a preference is saying the same thing. If you apply the baseball bat logic to a tool in position for cutting, a quartersawn grain pattern would be visible when looking down on the handle. The rings would run vertical if you look at the end of the handle opposite the cutting edge. The force is in a vertical direction on a tool handle, as opposed to a horizontal direction for a baseball bat, so the grain orientation would be rotated 90 degrees for bat vs. tool handle.

If the above is true, then every Sorby tool handle I own is made wrong. The flatsawn grain is on top, and the quartersawn grain is on the side. This is clearly intentional since all show the same orientation. This got me curious, so I did a little digging. It turns out even in baseball bats that there are many factors involved, and there is not a "one size fits all" answer. This link presents a good discussion that could easily be applied to tool handles.

http://www.woodbat.org/

Personally, I have never broken a handle, factory or home made. I am with Paul on this one. As long as the tool is made properly, the grain orientation is a minor issue at best, and is closer to a non-issue. (my humble opinion)

Richard

[mike holden]

Thank you everyone for your input.
I think the waters got a bit muddied because the question was not regarding grain direction along the tool, obviously it should be a spindle turning. The question was regarding the direction radially, telling me its like a baseball bat tells me nothing, I may have played baseball 2 or 3 times in my youth, telling me the grain runs like a cricket bat however would make sense, but then a cricket bat is directional, not round like a baseball bat or a tool handle.

So, force applied by the turning wood at one end of the lever (tool shaft) against the resistance of the tool handle applied across a fulcrum (tool rest) is best resisted by the grained substance (wood) when the grain runs parallel to the floor (fulcrum, world,etc.) - that is the force attempts to delaminate the grained substance - YES?

I think I've got it,
Mike

[Ryan Baker]

Originally Posted by Richard Bell CA

Mike:

If the above is true, then every Sorby tool handle I own is made wrong. The flatsawn grain is on top, and the quartersawn grain is on the side. This is clearly intentional since all show the same orientation.

Sure. The flatsawn grain is a lot better for putting a logo on, and i'm sure Sorby cares a whole lot more about having their logo prominent and upright than they care about the grain orientation in the handle.

Realistically, if you have a large enough diameter, large enough ferrule, and enough tang into the handle, it isn't going to make much difference -- either will work. But I agree with the previous comments.