Mortiser

[John TenEyck]

You are kidding right? There have probably been millions upon millions of mortises cut with a hollow chisel mortiser, or chain mortiser for that matter.
I would dare say the bulk of factory and woodshop work out there uses them.
To make a statement that a router is faster, easier, and more accurate is quite a stretch. Accuracy is inherent to initial machining, fine tuning, and setup with these. They are dependent on the precision and accuracy of the user.
They will and do make accurate joinery at a speed and ease that a router could only hope for. When I started in business, I had to use a router and make a jig once for some mortises. ONCE!
Never again if I have options like a real dedicated machine.
In my experience, a router is the next slowest thing to hand chopping.
With chain and chisel machines, there is generally no vibration. If it is 1/2" it makes 1/2", but with a router, you get vibration and chatter causing inaccuracy that can easily affect and ruin normal glue joint tolerances.
If there were a race to do 100 mortises of a given size in any specie of wood, between a chain, or chisel mortiser and a router with any jig, the router would be the last place I would place a bet.

My horizontal router mortiser is faster than any benchtop mortiser ever thought of being. And the resultant mortises are clean and straight, with no chisel work required. How many hobbiests have a chain mortiser? And that only cuts the mortise. You still have to cut and adjust the matching tenon to fit that less than perfect mortise. I built one of my machines for a pro woodworker. He uses it exclusively now for cutting face frame mortises, and he makes a lot of kitchen cabinets. His floor mortiser is used only for really large mortises.

If you are getting vibration using a router you aren't using the right bit or you aren't using the correct technique.

Think about all the things now being cut with CNC machines. At their heart they are just routers.

John

[Casey Carr]

I appreciate all the comments! I can see the argument for the router setup, but I can also see the worry about chatter. I know how mills and CNC machines work, have even run a conventional mill a bit. 1.75" through hard maple I can see chatter becoming a problem, although probably less than what I have in my hand cut mortises I've done so far. 3/8" diameter bit 1.75" long, I'll have to look and see if there even is such a beast.

I was really hoping this would be a clear cut answer as it's too late to change to a floating tenon on this project, but I don't want this thing to turn into a paperweight if I don't end up using it much. I do like the Greene and Greene so that might help in the decision to stick with the mortiser. I'll have to check out the fmt option that can square corners.

Thanks again, I always end up spending more money than planned after coming here.

[Van Huskey]

John[/QUOTE]

If speed is the primary concern then the Domino is probably the fastest mortise and tenon maker out there and the advantage increases the larger the work piece, I had a JDS Multi-router for years and sold it after it only collected dust when the Domino came into my shop.

This is all irrelevant since the OP has pointed out he wants to use traditional square tenons. To that the PM is the best bench top mortiser and their new tenoning jig is also in a class by itself though also pricey. I would say the OP may want to look at the floor standing Baleigh versions. A friend just got the tilting head version and it is very nice for the price and they make a non-tilting version for about $800 the clamping and table are excellent and it has a 1hp motor.

[Jim Andrew]

I bought the G0540 from Grizzly, it is a slot mortiser. Works great for me. I put a larger wood table on it, and put pencil marks on the wood table to aid in changing from one part to another. I use high speed steel milling cutters also from Grizzly. Take about 1/4" per swipe.

[Bill Adamsen]

I use both the Domino and the Mortiser. Getting the Domino actually increased my respect for the mortiser, which i use all the time and find extremely versatile. The Yates (shown) has a fabulous splined shaft that allows precise and firm cutting of mortises.

The shop is never that clean.

[Rick Fisher]

love the Yates mortiser..

Jealous ..

[John TenEyck]

There are several things my horizontal router mortiser can do that a Domino will never do. Just the ability to use something other than a straight bit is huge. Dovetails bits, vertical panel raising bits; can't use those in a Domino. Even with just a straight bit, I can make dados and rabbets on the edge of stock; try that with a Domino. The horizontal router mortiser can also cut integral tenons; something else the Domino can't do. And you can build one for less than $100 or buy one from me for a very fair price, no where near the price of that non-tilting Baleigh, or the even more expensive Domino. And my machine tilts.

If you want to make square mortises you can still use the horizontal router mortiser, so it's not irrelevant to the OP. You can square the ends with a chisel. It's not a big deal, nor hard to do. I sometimes use a mortising chisel for that task; I have no other use for them. What little time that takes to do is more than compensated for by the perfect, smooth sided mortises that require no cleanup.

John

[mreza Salav]

I had a General Int. tilting head (sold it), have used routers with jigs (actually is very accurate, fast and gives very clean mortises), have had both Domino's (500 and the XL). Fastests is Domino. It is not a replacement for a large floor standing (like the one shown above) but it covers 99% of my needs.

[John TenEyck]

I appreciate all the comments! I can see the argument for the router setup, but I can also see the worry about chatter. I know how mills and CNC machines work, have even run a conventional mill a bit. 1.75" through hard maple I can see chatter becoming a problem, although probably less than what I have in my hand cut mortises I've done so far. 3/8" diameter bit 1.75" long, I'll have to look and see if there even is such a beast.

I was really hoping this would be a clear cut answer as it's too late to change to a floating tenon on this project, but I don't want this thing to turn into a paperweight if I don't end up using it much. I do like the Greene and Greene so that might help in the decision to stick with the mortiser. I'll have to check out the fmt option that can square corners.

Thanks again, I always end up spending more money than planned after coming here.

You won't get chatter if you take small see-saw cuts with a router. Here's a 5/8" wide by 2-3/4" deep mortise I cut with a spiral end mill in my slot mortiser, and this thing is crude compared to my horizontal router mortiser:



I'd like to see some comparative photos from those who favor a chisel or chain mortiser.

John

[Brian Holcombe]

By hand;

[Brian Holcombe]

Still, by hand.






And some tenons, also by hand.

[Casey Carr]

2644009[/URL]]There are several things my horizontal router mortiser can do that a Domino will never do. Just the ability to use something other than a straight bit is huge. Dovetails bits, vertical panel raising bits; can't use those in a Domino. Even with just a straight bit, I can make dados and rabbets on the edge of stock; try that with a Domino. The horizontal router mortiser can also cut integral tenons; something else the Domino can't do. And you can build one for less than $100 or buy one from me for a very fair price, no where near the price of that non-tilting Baleigh, or the even more expensive Domino. And my machine tilts.

If you want to make square mortises you can still use the horizontal router mortiser, so it's not irrelevant to the OP. You can square the ends with a chisel. It's not a big deal, nor hard to do. I sometimes use a mortising chisel for that task; I have no other use for them. What little time that takes to do is more than compensated for by the perfect, smooth sided mortises that require no cleanup.

John

Can you share pics of your horizontal jig John? I'm curious anyways. And point me in the right direction as far as a router bit that will go that deep? I know you don't do that deep of a cut in one pass, most of what I was seeing was 1.25" depth of cut.

[Bill Adamsen]

Still, by hand.

Brian ... I always love seeing when you've posted because I just know I'm going to love the post. What great ideas and execution!

John ... took up the challenge. Attached photo shows a similar cut. Took longer to scribe the ends (2-3/4" long, 1-7/8" deep) then to setup and cut. Literally, it took about half a minute to verify setup and cut. This was extremely hard maple from a door project, didn't measure but I think 28mm thick (Blum TDH spec'd up to 30mm) and that mortise chisel is a 10mm. I didn't have something handy that would allow replicating the depth of your cut, so I made it longer. The sides aren't as clean but in my mind there are still a number of advantages ... not the least of which is the machine is setup, maintained and working.

[Chris Fournier]

Chatter when using a router is a symptom of operator error! Reduce the feed speed, depth of cut etc. to get a process that is chatter free. I bore the ends of the mortise to full depth by peck drilling, then I aim for a chatter free amount of material to removed in each pass. I tend not to climb cut.

[Mike Henderson]

For making mortises, it's hard to beat a horizontal slot mortiser. To me, the Domino is a portable horizontal slot mortiser.

A horizontal slot mortiser makes perfect mortises, and it's quick, easy to use, and very accurate.

Mike