Question about artwork.

[Gene Hobbs]

We have a little league baseball team. We paid a artist to create the logo we wanted for our team and let him print our jerseys and hats. Now I told him I need the logo in the format it was made which was corel. I need the logo for sponsor plaques and car tags. Well it boils down to he does not want to give us the file because he said we could take it and go somewhere else with it. He was told it does not matter he was payed good money to create that logo for us. If we wanted the file we should be able to get it. Am I wrong with this thinking?

[Scott Shepherd]

Gene, for the most part, yes, you are wrong. Doesn't matter what you paid him. If matters what you paid him for. If you paid him to design a logo for shirts, it does not give you the rights to use that image for anything other than shirts. He owns the logo, period.

You can purchase all the rights to the logo and use it for anything you want, but that usually runs in the 1000's of dollars.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but if he designed it, he owns it, unless stated in writing otherwise.

[Martin Boekers]

Gene,

If you read through this forum about copyrights you'll see that yes he does own
the artwork and can refuse to give it to you. You may try to negotiate it for a fee,
but he may refuse.

In the future you may ask for your rights to use the image during the "quoting stage" (get it in writing)
and make sure you are covered for what ever future use.

Copyrights extend to any graphic, keep that in mind if someone shoots pictures
of the team, designs programs, flyers etc. It will save you trouble in the future.
Keep a standard release with you at events.

Sometimes you can go to a local college and hire an art student at a cheaper rate
and more than likely they'll let you have what rights you want as long as they can include
it in their portfolio. Just remember though it is a student and quality will vary, but it may
be a viable alternative.

[Bill Stein]

From your post: "We paid a artist to create the logo we wanted for our team and let him print our jerseys and hats"

If you *truly* paid him to create a logo it is yours regardless of whether you gave him the job to print the apparel or not. BUT if you went to him and said something like "we want to buy jersey's etc. from you but we don't have a logo, can you work up something to print on them" and you didn't SPECIFICALLY pay him for designing the logo (in other words you just paid for jerseys) he owns the logo.

Summary: If you had two transactions (documented on contracts and/or invoices):
1. Design a logo
2. Purchase jerseys and hats
you own the artwork and he needs to provide it to you.

If you had one transaction
1. Purchase Jerseys and hats using vendor supplied artwork (even if it is your logo)
he owns the artwork.

[Martin Boekers]

[QUOTE=Bill Stein;1549108]From your post: "We paid a artist to create the logo we wanted for our team and let him print our jerseys and hats"

If you *truly* paid him to create a logo it is yours regardless of whether you gave him the job to print the apparel or not. BUT if you went to him and said something like "we want to buy jersey's etc. from you but we don't have a logo, can you work up something to print on them" and you didn't SPECIFICALLY pay him for designing the logo (in other words you just paid for jerseys) he owns the logo.


If you got in writing that you have the rights to to the logo, then you
have the rights. If there is no paperwork saying who owns it and what
rights are relinquished then the creater owns it.

The creater can give you certain rights are none at all. Just because
you pay for them to do the work doesn't mean you own the rights.

It's a concept that, yes I agree can be hard to understand, but infact
the shop does own the rights unless specifacally stated what rights
they relinquish to you.

If you purchase rights from them for use on a 100 shirts, if you want to
use it for shirt #101, or a letterhead, christmas card etc you don't
have those rights and the shop can take action against you.

If they do give you full rights that's great! If they do they usually include
a clause that they retain certain rights themselves. Use as advertising,
stock imagery, to incorporate pieces are intirety in other work.

Best to define everything in writing when discusing the transaction not after.


Marty

[Scott Shepherd]

If you *truly* paid him to create a logo it is yours regardless of whether you gave him the job to print the apparel or not.

Bill, I disagree with that statement. If he did not give you the rights, you do not own it, whether you paid him or not. I paid someone to design me a logo several years ago. Up front I had to specify what I wanted to use the logo for. The logo designed for me could only be used in those manners. For instance, I said "Business cards, brochures, t-shirts". If I want to use the logo for anything other than those items, then I would have to contact him and see if he would allow it or if I had to purchase additional rights to use it in the new manner.

Just because you pay someone to design a logo does not mean you own it. Period. In fact, it's the exact opposite. If you pay someone to design a logo, THEY own it. You can purchase the exclusive rights, which will transfer complete ownership to you, but you'll pay big bucks for that to happen.

Most companies that know what they are doing always buy the logo design and the rights to it, then they can do what they want.

Without the rights, you have nothing. You can't bring me the logo the guy designed and ask me to modify it. I can't do it, legally. It's not yours to give to me to change, and it's not mine for me to change.

Like Marty, it all seems backwards and insane (because it is), but that's the way it is and that's the way that world works.

[Gene Hobbs]

Well that kinda sux. Because we have the logo on our shirts but nothing else. The coach went to the guy. Coach had the layout drew on paper what we wanted all the guy did was recreateded it in corel. I guess I will sit down tomarrow and design a new logo. Thanks guys

[Brian Fiore]

We have a little league baseball team. We paid a artist to create the logo we wanted for our team and let him print our jerseys and hats. Now I told him I need the logo in the format it was made which was corel. I need the logo for sponsor plaques and car tags. Well it boils down to he does not want to give us the file because he said we could take it and go somewhere else with it. He was told it does not matter he was payed good money to create that logo for us. If we wanted the file we should be able to get it. Am I wrong with this thinking?

Gene, In FL at least the magical term is "work for hire." Here if you ask an artist to create anything for you, you better get the term "work for hire" in writing. That means the buyer owns the copyright and not the artist. Generally, if you just pay an artist to create something for you, and you are not specific upfront and don't get anything in writing, then the artist has the stronger case to say that they retain the copyright to the work.

In your case, I might suggest offering the artist some amount of $ for the copyright to the logo (assuming you still want it) and let the artist know that if he does not sell it to you for a fair price, your team will go to his competitors with all future business, and you will be designing a new logo.

Remember, always get something in writing indicating that your commision of a work is a "work for hire" and/or the copyright of such work, is owned by you and not the artist. Note, most artists will usually charge a little more for this though, but for long term use, its usually worth it.

Good Luck.

[Gene Hobbs]

Sorry about that. Dadgum keyboard.

[Tom Rick]

Well that kinda sux. Because we have the logo on our shits but nothing else. The coach went to the guy. Coach had the layout drew on paper what we wanted all the guy did was recreateded it in corel. I guess I will sit down tomarrow and design a new logo. Thanks guys

So you brought an existing design to a draftsman and paid him to enter it into a software package so it could be used.

So you did not pay him to create the design (the design was already there) and I don't think he owns any rights to the work.

Take the same layout that pre-existed the work by the draftsman and have some one else enter it into corel so you can have things made up for your team.

[Brian Fiore]

So you brought an existing design to a draftsman and paid him to enter it into a software package so it could be used.

So you did not pay him to create the design (the design was already there) and I don't think he owns any rights to the work.

Take the same layout that pre-existed the work by the draftsman and have some one else enter it into corel so you can have things made up for your team.

Gene,

I agree with Tom here. If you or your Coach already created your logo on a sheet of paper, and brought it to the artist to re-create the exsisting logo in Corel, then you or your Coach are the ones who own the copyright (as originally drawn on your paper). Just find someone else to create a corel version of your paper drawn logo for future use.

AND, just to be cautious this time, get it in writing (signed by the artist) that all work he performs for you, is a "work for hire" and that you own the copyright to any work or derivitive work created by the artist regarding such logo.

AND, also don't forget to get a copy of the corel file from him, when you pay him.

Good Luck

[Dirk Lewis]

er..Gene..check spelling on SHIRTS

good snag, LOL!

[Dan Hintz]

If coach had it already designed on paper, coach owns the design. But unless you paid for access to the final file, the "artist" owns the file. You're free to have someone else recreate it, though... it may be worth it to ask the artist how much he would charge to give you the file. To determine if it's a reasonable fee, just look at how much he originally charged you to recreate it from paper.

[Scott Shepherd]

It's still not quite that clear. If it was a doodle or a concept taken to them, then the artist still owns it. If it was a full blown design and just needed to be digitized, then the guy that drew it owns it. My guess is that the coach had a doodle or a napkin drawing of a concept and the artist brought it to life and "created" it.

If that's the case, the artist still owns it and you're still stuck.

Personally, I'd go back to the artist and tell him you apologize for the confusion, you were not aware that by drawing it, he owned the rights. Apologize. Then move forward by calming explaining what you're trying to accomplish and assure him you want to keep the business with him. Tell him you want to make other products for the team and ask him how you can accomplish this and still keep him happy.

I'm sure once you calmly explain that you didn't understand how the rights worked, and what you are trying to accomplish, then he'll come to understanding which makes both of you happy. If he doesn't budge, you can politely tell him you are disappointed and it's a real shame because each of the kids have parents, parents that work and have need for design work and it's a shame you won't be able to recommend him to those parents or other teams for future work.

One thing you cannot do now is to take his work and have someone trace it in Corel. That would be illegal. You'd have to start over with a different artist and they would own the rights to that one too, so you'd be back to this same place.

[Joseph Tovar]

Or next time you can try taking your design idea online to someplace like 99designs. Make an offer, have artist create different designs until the time is up. Choose the artwork you like, and supposedly it yours to use for whatever you like.....

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Who owns what, and when?

Intellectual property is a serious issue.
On 99designs, designers agree to upload wholly original artwork and, subsequently, they own the rights to their submissions. This is true all the way up until one of their designs is selected as a winning design entry. Then, and only then, do they agree to transfer their rights to that particular entry over to the contest holder. They do this via the Design Handover, and once done, the contest holder becomes the new owner.

If a designer creates several iterations of a single design, but the contest holder only purchases one of those iterations—then the rights to those other designs remains the property of the designer. The contest holder can, of course, negotiate with the designer for the transfer of rights to multiple designs.
If the contest holder does not purchase a designer’s work, it remains the property of the designer.

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Personally for me, if someone asks me to design something for them, it's theirs. That's why they paid me. If they want me to make something from the design they arleady paid me to make, shirts, banners, etc, that's a different transaction. If they want me to make business cards, I'll happily hand over the design and tell them to take it to kinkos, that's not the business I'm in. And you know what...they next time they want some more work done, they'll come back to me. Treat you customers right.