Before I buy the SawStop???

[Ted Baca]

I have all but decided on the Sawstop. The dealer actually tried to talk me into the PM2000 last night, saying that the SawStop was way overkill for a home shop. I think it is well designed saw aside from the brake mechanism. I agree with him that PM2000 would be a lifetime tool to be enjoyed and offer years of trouble free woodcutting. But I like the SawStop for first the obvious reason. But also the design of the table top for adjustment and I really do like that the hand wheel for the blade tilt is outboard. I have some concern for the life expectancy of the electronics in a dust and vibration envirment. SawStop assures me it hasn't been an issue in 2 years. I would like to hear from all the Home Shop SawStop owners on your experiences. Do you look back and say I could have saved some money and bought another saw? I don't like the time it takes for the initial start up? What ever you tell me would be helpfull. I had another thread when I was trying decide between three models but I really want to hone in on this purchase, a no regrets decision.

[Dan Drager]

Clearly the PM2000 is a fine Product that will last a lifetime. But you chose the Sawstop for a REASON. Beware the salesman who tries to stear you away from the product you wanted in the first place.

[Mike Henderson]

Manufacturers often offer sales bonuses that go to the actual sales person (not to the store) for the sale of certain items - when you get a hard push like you described, I'd suspect that the salesperson is being compensated for the sale of the item being pushed. Take his advice with a big grain of salt.

I agree with Dan - you prefer the SawStop for a good reason. If you buy the PM you'll never have the SS safety feature and never be able to add it - short of buying a new saw.

Mike

[Roy Wall]

Ted -

I think I picked a great time to get back into hobbyist (yet serious) woodworking. It was 18 months ago and I got a Sawstop. It was a little work to get it set up....but I am very pleased with the saw.

Waiting for the codes to check out does not bother me...it gets me concentrating on the cut to be made.

I bought it primarily for the safety feature. Secondly, it was a well built machine with improved DC. What I didn't realize was the importance of the riving knife....it is a great feature! I imagine the PM2000 will give you the same level of precision the Sawstop can deliver....a good, accurate table saw is...well, a good accurate table saw. And I suppose there are 5-10 good cabinet saws that fit these criteria of accuracy, durability, and machining.

So you just have to ask yourself if you want to spend the additional $1500 for the "blade stop". I believe the electrical components are reliable - just like the power going to the machine.

Since I DID NOT have a table saw, this was a 'first purchase" - plus my wife loved the look of it and thought the brake feature was amazing. She encouraged me to get the machine.

It hurt the wallet.....but the pleasure of using the saw over time diminishes an upset stomach!

Best of luck!

[Steve Canada]

The question about the Electronics is warranted. IF the electronics EVER fail, sawstop is looking at a very serious lawsuit.

I would assume the electronic components must perform for the life of the machine and must hold lifetime warrantee or a recommended replacement schedule if they don't last forever.

Can anyone confirm?

[Sam Blanchard]

Ted:
I bought my 31230 SawStop and never looked back.
The fit and finish is awesome. The main table on my unit arrived DEAD flat, measured with my Starrett 380-24 straight edge.
Waiting for the electronics has never been an issue. I don't hardly notice it now and agree that it is a great time to concentrate on the upcoming cut.
It's just a damn fine saw and you won't regret owning it. The pleasure of using such a fine tool lasts far longer than the concern over price.
Good luck with your decision, whichever way you go.

[Walt Caza]

Hi Ted,
Having spent this summer shopping cabinet saws, I know how this decision
can be trying. I am thrilled with the SawStop cabinet saw, even if it did
not have the brake system. I went with the 50" SS rip fence as well.
The 3hp single phase runs so quiet, I can speak over it, while standing at it. Comparing actual cuts with my previous contractor saw is quite revealing. The new cuts are so smooth, I wonder how I ever got by 23yrs
with my old saw. The riving knife is unobtrusive, and a great help.
It is a joy to spin the wheels for height and bevel adjustment.

Start-up is just a few moments per session. I don't mind watching the lights settle on green for ready. It confirms I have everything set-up
properly, and that the system is active. Subsequent starts are quick with
the red paddle switch, which offers handy bump off with your knee.

I timed a regular blade to dado stack swap this week. If I have things
handy, and do not need to search for them, I can swap to dado in about
8 min. I can swap back to regular blade, brake cartridge and table insert
in about 7ish min. I have improved alot over my earlier fumbling and
hesitation. (these times incl gap adj and saw running again)

In fairness, minor downsides would be that the Bies style fence must
be adj parallel to miter slots and blade while removed from the rail.
I know all Bies type rip fences do this, but my old Unifence adjusted
while mounted to the rail, so you can moniter as you go.
The big cast iron top seems particularly scratch-prone, perhaps
available metal and casting are not what they once were ...

In the event of a brake trigger, the tighter the blade to brake gap, the
quicker the stop. May mean the difference between a band-aid and
stitches, so it is important. I do not feel confident yet, to make this
critical adjustment from up top through the table insert. Instead, I
shine a light in the right side cabinet,(has interlock) and check the gap
from a side view, rather than a top view.
Caution: you may want to move the rip fence aside before ducking under
the extension table ... DAMHIKT !

Another quibble is the table insert retaining screw is shared between
the regular insert, and the walnut dado insert. These 4MM screws
with allen key head are proving hard to locate, as I would like back-up.
(don't ask me how I know this either!)

The blade and arbour have a dust collection shroud which is great for
sawdust pickup, but also hungry for the arbour nut.(ya, DAMHIKT)

Overall, this saw is amazing! It offers a dizzying array of adjustment
options, and is built like a brick outhouse. As the cornerstone of my little
shop, it is super functional and a joy to own.

Please allow me to offer you fair warning. The mere mention of Sawstop
invokes heated passions for many reasons. The key is to learn to
brace yourself after mentioning it in any online forums!

Best luck with your major shop purchase,
Walt

ps when I power up this fine machine, I realize that the inventor has
given us pure genius, and has earned his rewards ...
(braces himself for verbal onslaught)

[Ted Baca]

Steve Actually the sawsop comes with a 2 year warrnaty on everything but the motor which is 5 year. This is a cause for concern. They say that
they will work with you after warranty period in a case by case manner. But and I mean BUT, what if they change their attitude, ownership or simply go out of business. I beleive that in the next five years all major manufactures Jet, PM, Genrela, Delta etc will come out with a similar braking device for tablesaws and that may cause Sawstop to lose it's hold in the marketplace. I realize I am asking for the "crystal ball" answer here but I haven't ever been a gambler. And the 1550 difference can buy a planer and a jointer or save it on one emergency room visit.

[Dan Clark]

First, as others have mentioned, salesmen are motivated by money. Indirect or direct, ALWAYS remember that some of the advice comes from their interest in making the most money. For example, the PM2000 may provide the dealer with a better margin (profit), or they may have a dealer or sales rep spiff to promote a specific brand.

Second, regarding "...way overkill for a home shop", I think that's complete xxxxxxxxx! IMO, safety is important anywhere. It is not limited to a production environment. I think it is reprehensible for the salesman to tell you that.

I believe everyone should choose what they are comfortable with. If someone doesn't believe in the SawStop safety feature, that's fine; it's their money. But it sounds like SawStop safety is important to you. Go with your gut feeling.

Dan.

[Mark Singer]

If you got the PM 2000 and had an accident......you will always and forever know you made the wrong decision....don't take a chance! I consider myself experienced on a cabinet saw....nothing ever seems to happen that surprises me...still I bought the SawStop and yes I had a Pm 66 before...which is a great saw....except for one feature. Even besides safety the SS is a`better machine.

[lou sansone]

I think the SS blade brake idea is pretty good. The issue of SS going out of business is a valid concern. You could get left hi and dry. I have taught ww in my home shop, and if I were to continue to do that I probably invest in the SS for the liability issues ( teaching high school students can be nerve wracking and having that safety feature would help with the stomach acid ). For me personally, I have never had an accident with a TS, except for one kick back that the SS main selling point would not have helped. It's riving knife would have helped and I think in many ways the riving knife does its job many times more than the SS blade brake does ( how many of the SS owners here have actually had the brake employed because you were going to cut your fingers?). By that I mean, the riving knife is really making the cut safer a good portion of the time you are actually sawing, as opposed to the very infrequent times one might be sawing their hands off.

Having said all that, for me personally, since at this time I am not teaching in my own shop, a full featured European sliding table saw would be better choice for me. You might think about the sliding table saws, if you are willing to spend a fair amount of $$ and have the space for one. They are not for everyone, but I would give them some consideration.

best wishes in your new purchase

Lou

[Tom Ruflin]

I'm a hobbiest and love my SawStop. I had a Delta contractor saw before it so I do not have experience using other cabinet saws. I did investigate some of the other saws and at the time SS was the only one within my budget that had a riving knife. The PM2000 was not on the market yet. If I absolutely, positively, without a doubt could not afford the SawStop then I would go for the PM2000 as it has a true riving knife. I have 2 friends that have had table saw accidents, one lost a finger and another almost lost 2 fingers. I would not take any chances.

[Matt Moore]

Originally Posted by lou sansone

It's riving knife would have helped and I think in many ways the riving knife does its job many times more than the SS blade brake does ( how many of the SS owners here have actually had the brake employed because you were going to cut your fingers?). By that I mean, the riving knife is really making the cut safer a good portion of the time you are actually sawing, as opposed to the very infrequent times one might be sawing their hands off.
Lou

You are right that the riving knife will reduce the injuries most of the time but that is not the point. The point is to make the safest saw possible and if the worst case scenario occurs then reduce the injury to a scratch rather than lost fingers or a mangled hand.

Similar to saying: I don't think I need an airbag since most of the time the seatbelt by itself (if worn) (the riving knife is removable) will save my life or reduce my injuries 100% of the time. We know that is not true.

It is obvious that SS did not set out just to build a saw with only its safety technology. They set out to use all the safety features found in saws today and add their technology as well. It is by far the safest cabinet saw on the market. If you do some searching, it is well known that kickback can cause your hand to move into the saw blade. Will the riving knife reduce the chance of this occuring. Absolutely, but will it stop it 100% of the time, no. So in that case the brake does its job. This is just the same in a car. The airbag is a complement to the seat belt. One without the other is less safe no matter how you look at it.

Take a look at the testimonials on SS's website. Proof that with or without the riving knife the worst case scenario does occur and the SS kept the injury from being serious. Just a bandaid is needed in most cases. http://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop-testimonials.htm

[Matt Moore]

Originally Posted by Ted Baca

Steve Actually the sawsop comes with a 2 year warrnaty on everything but the motor which is 5 year. This is a cause for concern. They say that
they will work with you after warranty period in a case by case manner. But and I mean BUT, what if they change their attitude, ownership or simply go out of business. I beleive that in the next five years all major manufactures Jet, PM, Genrela, Delta etc will come out with a similar braking device for tablesaws and that may cause Sawstop to lose it's hold in the marketplace. I realize I am asking for the "crystal ball" answer here but I haven't ever been a gambler. And the 1550 difference can buy a planer and a jointer or save it on one emergency room visit.

Why is the warranty a cause for concern. 2 years is the same as Delta. Powermatic is 1 year.

The savings can't buy your finger back. You are looking for a panacia in regard to the company. We can find good and bad with every company.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Originally Posted by Steve Canada

IF the electronics EVER fail, [...]

I would assume the electronic components must perform for the life of the machine and must hold lifetime warrantee or a recommended replacement schedule if they don't last forever. Can anyone confirm?

The only thing I can confirm is that nothing lasts forever.