PVC Sign Material

[Keith Outten]

I was able to purchase a 3/4 inch thick solid PVC board today from a local supplier. The board was 18 feet long and 7.25 inches wide. It should yield 24 ADA door signs making the price of each sign blank about $1.87 each.

I cut a small piece off of the end of the board and routed a test sign blank on my CNC Router. The PVC routed beautifully, cuts like butter and it sands real quick with an ROS. PVC is very light compared to Corian, it machines just like wood.

I painted my test piece and will do a little more testing tomorrow to see how well the paint adheres. So far I am very impressed with PVC as a less expensive alternative material to Corian for certain types of signs. PVC is available from my local lumber yard in various board sizes and in sheets up to 120 inches by 48" and thicknesses from 3/8" to 1". My memory isn't reliable but I believe the price quote I received for 3/8" thick sheet 48" by 96" was $69.00. Purchasing full sheets should bring the price per sign blank down even more.

Laser Engraving isn't an option but it can be routed on a CNC router or on a rotary engraver at very high speeds, thus reducing the fabrication time considerably. I will be glad to share pictures and my final data when the first couple of sign blanks are complete if anyone is interested.
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[Mike Null]

Keith

Very interesting. What colors does it come in? Do you think the borgs have it?

I can see a lot of sign applications and maybe some plaques.


Edit:
A Google search turned this up. Makes me think sign supply houses would have it.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/cat...FQrFGgodShAGCw

[Angus Hines]

I just grabbed 2 4x8 sheets from them because shipped 340.00 per sht. from Charollette its cheaper than my local guy Howard.

But colors are limited Gray white and Black other colors are special order, However they are avaliable

[Keith Outten]

I haven't done any other research other than to find a local supplier. I was there yesterday to order material to replace my porch ceiling when I remembered that they sold PVC. I haven't seen PVC at either Lowes or Home Depot here in my local area.

Seems to me that the price of PVC here is very reasonable and it can be used for a lot of applications, particularly signs of any size, interior or exterior. The nice feature is that you can use PVC glue as an adhesive, it is cheap and available at any supply house...and it dries in seconds.

Angus, you are close enough to make the trip here worth your while to purchase PVC. You can contact W.T. Fary Brothers Building Materials at 804-693-2544 or toll free at 888-294-7866.
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[Joe Pelonio]

I have been buying and using PVC sheet for signs for many years, mostly 1/8" and 1/4". The 1/8" can be easily cut with utility knife/straight edge. Here it's available in many colors at sign supplies, and wholesale plastics suppliers. I have used the thicker PVC for router cut letters/logos, the only issue is that the edges are not as smooth since it's a dense foam. I found that any paint works on it as long as it's primed with an automotive or plastic primer. For ADA and other interior signs I have used the 1/4" as a backing for 1/16" acrylic. On outdoor use, the colors fade rather quickly, 2-3 years, while black and white last a lot longer.

[Scott Shepherd]

Keith, the new Vision system you bought will pop the braille in super fast. I've stopped doing braille on my laser for the most part and moved it all back to the rotary. I can poke the holes in a sign in seconds versus minutes on the laser.

[Angus Hines]

Are the the guys in G. Point you had told me about and were looking for?

Angus, you are close enough to make the trip here worth your while to purchase PVC. You can contact W.T. Fary Brothers Building Materials at 804-693-2544 or toll free at 888-294-7866.
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[Kevin L. Waldron]

Azek and several other products are PVC based and easily cut. Pvc is easily shaped with heat and all kinds of things can be done. Azek offers all kinds of lengths and thicknesses.
http://www.azek.com/ .

You guys need to get out more. We have also used Trex for outdoor products.
http://www.trex.com/

Most wholesale lumber companies carry some form of these products.

Kevin

[Keith Outten]

Steve, I am planning to use the Vision Engraver for all of my ADA door sign work except very detailed logos that have to be laser engraved. The laser engraving time with a 35 watt laser engraver takes to long when you have hundreds of door signs to do. When I am using PVC for sign material and have a detailed logo that needs to be laser engraved I plan to inlay a round Corian medalion into the PVC sign blank.

Angus, Fary Bros Building Supplies is in the northern end of Gloucester County, a couple of miles past the Court House.

Kevin, I now realize how long PVC has been around and how many people have been using it for sign work. I never considered PVC because most of my work is centered around Dupont Corian. Since PVC and laser engravers don't go together I concentrated on a material that would allow me to use my ShopBot and my laser engraver together. I recently purchased a Vision Rotary Engraver, hence the change in my angle of vision looking for new materials. Have you used heat to bend PVC? What can you tell me about thermal bending PVC, I heat and bend Corian all the time but I hadn't considered hot forming PVC due to the chlorine content...I missed the boat on this one.
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[Kevin L. Waldron]

Keith,
Look at this link

http://www.specialtytools.com/index.php?cPath=2_647

Think in terms of a solid surface oven or conduit pipe bender. We have used our greenlee pvc oven pipe bender often to bend pvc crown molding.

Most of the ovens have heat coils in them. Not sure of the exact tempature but I would think somewhere between 275-425 degrees. Many guys use pvc pipe for lumber steam benders so it would have to be above the tempature of steam but I have never actually checked. The secret to bending is to make the temparture go 360 degrees around. There are also some special heat blanks available that will allow these tempatures. Another thing that you can try is heating sand and placing in a sand bed.

Most of our bending has been spotty so we haven't been able to justify the ovens but maybe you can. I do have a supplier who has one and will been any solid surface for us.

Kevin

[Doug Bergstrom]

We have used the PVC for years as well. Just keep in mind you cannot use the colors outdoors or in bright light as it will fade very quickly. Also if you work with the materials a lot the Komatex brand has les VOC's than most others.

[Keith Outten]

Kevin,

Thanks for the link, the big heater ovens are just the ticket but a bit pricey
There is a top shop in Norfolk Virginia that is about an hours drive from me that has a 48" by 120" oven that has done some work for me and the price was very reasonable...but I would love to have my own oven in my shop.

Temperatures for Dupont Corian should never exceed 350 degrees F or it will degrade. I use 325 degrees F and soak for 20 minutes in my heat press then move the material to my form and use plenty of clamps with light pressure.

I assume at this point that the process for PVC bending would be simular, the temperature would most likely be different but a little experimenting or an email to the manufacturer should provide the right number. I also assume that as long as the PVC isn't melted chlorine gas isn't a problem.

I understand that both foam core and solid PVC is available and once again I am assuming that foam core wouldn't be suitable for thermal bending. No doubt the price of solid PVC would be much higher then foam core which is what I found locally.

I have just about decided that when using foam core PVC we will paint the sign blank then route the text and graphics, this will provide the necessary coating of the edges and protection from UV in exterior applications. Possibly a coat of clear poly over the entire sign when it is completed may be necessary.

All of the extra prep work and finishing may very well take me right back to Corian for all exterior signs. The cost of labor and time for most products more than offsets the price of Corian making it the best bang for the buck in most cases, at least for me.

Doug, I will look into Komatex.

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[Larry Bratton]

Keith:
I use closed cell PVC on my apartment signs a lot. I am currently using Celtec mfg by Vycom. It works so well on the router. It takes paint like a charm. We use regular acrylic latex house paint on it. I buy it in 5mm for door plates. I pay $41.00 +- for 4x8 sheets of that. Thicker, is of course more. You can also buy some brands of it in color..Sintra comes to mind. You can also glue it with PVC or acrylic type cements, we use Weldon #16. It provides an almost instant permanent bond. It has to consistency of syrup. I buy it in gallons but keep it stored in common plastic catsup and mustard dispensers like the restaurants use. Painted, it holds up well outdoors too.