Shaper purchase - Asking for help & suggestions

[Walt Beattie]

I have never used a shaper, but want to expand my shop with a molder shaper. The router table is not doing the job. I just spun a combination rail & stile 1/4" shaft bit and bent it at full speed. This the the second bit that I have done this with, the first was a 2-1/2 in high molding profile I used for chair rails. This is not a fun event!

I have up to a 220v 30 amp feed available or 20 amp 110v. I have a 3 HP dust collector installed in my shop to connect to it. I want to make cabinet doors, raised panels, and molding & chair rails.

I am looking at Grizzley 1-1/2 HP or Grizzley Shop Fox 2 HP.
Is this heavy enough for general shop use? Are One or multiple passes needed?

What about feeders? are they a separate attachement? How do they mount onto the table?

Please offer suggestions and comments. What to buy. What brands do you like or dislike. Any comments on Grizzly or Shop Fox. What should I watch out for? Is a 20 x 20" or 21" x 24" table large enough? What else should I buy with it? What else should I know about it.

This is a powerful tool, and I don't want to dive into more than what I realize. I appreciate your help.
Thanks,
Walt

[Mike Heidrick]

Walt, welcome to SMC!

There are two great books out there
Shaper Handbook by Rodger W. Cliffe
The Shaper Book by Lonnie Bird

I would recommend a 3hp-5hp machine with a removable 1 1/4" spindle that can also mount a 3/4" spindle too.

Powermatic 27, 25A, PM2700, Delta 43-455 (mine - actuallty a 3phase 43-460 that I put teh 1-phase motor in so it is like a 43-455 now) or 43-495X, Grizzly G1026, Jet JWS-25X, etc. Tons of great machines out there. Felder, Minimax, Laguna, SCMI, there are a ton of big money Euro models out there as well. Also I like Weaver Shaper systems as well but that is big money as well.

Look at fence design, and the spindles it comes with to figure out value.

Tons of thoughts and feelings on feeders. I like 1hp feeders for big shapers. Some feel 1/2hp is enough. YMMV. Read up on feeders in the books as well.

[Jamie Buxton]

Buy a used shaper. They're often not heavily used, and most of them are built like tanks anyhow. In my area, Craigslist has a good one perhaps once a month. Typically the 3 hp Delta runs $800 or so without a feeder, and $1200 or so with a feeder.

[Joe Jensen]

Welcome Walt. I second the recommendation to buy used, especially if you are in a large market. I live in the Phx area and there are several 3-5HP machines on Craigs List every day. For the price of a new 1.5 or 2HP Grizley you can get a much better PM or even an SCMI.

[Jim Kountz]

I have never used a shaper, but want to expand my shop with a molder shaper. The router table is not doing the job. I just spun a combination rail & stile 1/4" shaft bit and bent it at full speed. This the the second bit that I have done this with, the first was a 2-1/2 in high molding profile I used for chair rails. This is not a fun event!

Walt

Walt welcome to the creek! I must say I was shocked when I read that you bent a router bit?? That sounds really bad, not sure how that even happens but I will say that I think 1/4" shank bits for rail and stile work is too light. I know they sell them everyday but these should be 1/2" shank bits and especially large molding bits like for chair rails. That being said if a shaper is what you want there are a number of guys here who are "shaper pros" and could learn you bunches about how to use one and what to look for in buying one. Personally If I were ever to get another one (had one, sold it) I would get at least a 3hp unit. Today you may only be doing rails and stile, tomorrow you may want to make an entry door, large crown molding etc etc. A feeder is a sound investment with a shaper and makes them ALOT safer and accurate to use. Here I would look for a very min of a 1/4 hp unit and larger is better. Hope this helps and once again welcome to the Creek!!

[Jeff Duncan]

Yup....I'd go with a better quality used machine over the new one's your looking at. I started with a Delta 3hp and found even that was a little underpowered for the heavy operations. Don't think I'd ever consider getting anything smaller than that. For the size machines your looking at, I think I'd just stick with the router table and make an extra pass until I could save up enough for a decent machine. And also stop using 1/4" shank bits for that type of operation, they're way too small for cope and stick profiles. I don't use 1/4" shank for anything more than roundovers or really small profiles, you need to use 1/2" shank for the bigger stuff.
If you have the space I'd go with the bigger table machines. I have a 27 that's ok, and an offshore tilting shaper that's almost double the table size of the 27 that's much more comfortable to use. The small, under 2hp, machines have tiny tables that may be a PITA.
Lastly you'll have to decide the size of spindle you want to use. I find I get a better cut with the larger 1-1/4" cutters. But they can be more expensive than the 3/4" versions.

good luck,
JeffD

[Joe Chritz]

I use a 3 HP grizzly shaper and it does OK. It is nothing fancy and I don't really care for the fence but it runs true and smooth. It comes with arbors at 1/2, 3/4 and 1".

1 1/4 is the "best" size for cutters and they are generally better performers but are usually a fair amount more expensive. You can always run a bushing and run a 1" or 3/4 spindle with a 1 1/4" cutter. There are some very quality cutters in 3/4" now that are available.

I have used a 2 HP Jet shaper and it does OK and is everybit as good as a 3 HP router, maybe better. Without a power feed I don't think you would ever be able to tell the difference. Table size is another deal all together and almost without exception bigger is better here.

ETA: Shaper tooling is crazy expensive and you can easily bypass the initial cost with just a few set ups.

Joe

[Peter Quinn]

I wasn't aware any manufacturer even made a cope and mold set with a 1/4" shank. First, lose those quick and step up to a 1/2" shank for your router table. I won't spin any profile with a 1/4" shank that I can't fit in a laminate trimmer, even in my 3HP table mounted router. Just not enough shank for my liking.

As to shapers, I agree with previous posts that 3HP 3/4" spindle is really the minimum size to be versatile and useful for general molding and door making. Even at that size there are molding operations that will leave you under powered and require multiple passes, but it will work fine for door making, panel raising and small moldings (2 1/4" thickness or less, 5/8" maximum depth of profile, give or take). A smaller 1 1/2-2HP model may have some uses but will prove severely limiting, and its table size makes it all but useless for pattern shaping with a rub collar except for very small work.

I bought my 3HP Delta used for just under $700, I tapped the table to accept a 1HP feeder (grizzly, not a bad unit but by no means as good as the Steff units I use at work), I have a corregated back head from Schmidt, an Amana 40MM aluminum head, and a small but growing collection of cutters, most with 1 1/4" bore, for when I step up to that bigger shaper "someday". I use much bigger machines at work and say get one of those if you can swing it financially, but a good 3HP 3/4" spindle machine is no toy, does good work and beats the pants off of ANY router table for shaping work. Its a good place to start, might just do all you need in a non commercial setting.

If you get a shaper please learn to use it and be cautious. Its a lot more powerful and a lot less forgiving of your mistakes than a router. There are books and several fine archive articles in FWW (one very good one by a fellow creeker!)

[Karl Brogger]

Shaper tooling is crazy expensive and you can easily bypass the initial cost with just a few set ups.

I spent more on a set of insert heads for one profile than I did on my last shaper. It gets spendy quick.

[David Richardson]

I have to agree that the smaller machines are likely to be limited - too little power and tables are too small. The 3hp, 3/4" spindle minimum is a good place to start - pretty much any of the machines in that class will allow you to buy a 1 1/4" spindle if needed. Anymore, I try to always buy cutters with 1 1/4" bores as I find they cut better, but the 3/4" bore is fine for smaller profiles. A power feeder is a must - I started with a 1/4hp unit, but I'm much happier with the 1hp I have now. Finally, the suggestion that you look for a used one is right on - there was a 3hp Grizzly in very nice shape listed locally last week for $400!

You don't list a location in your profile - one thing you might consider is trying to find a fellow woodworker or two in your area with shapers. I find that most folks that frequent these forums are more than happy to share their experiences and spend a little time 'talking shop'.

[Steve Griffin]

Hi Walt,
You are getting some good advice here. 3Hp, 3/4 spindle size and power feeder is really the entry level for really using a shaper as it's meant to be used.

Virtually every piece of wood I produce visits the shaper to get the final edge put on it. -An outboard fence and straight cutter puts a perfectly square and smooth edge on each board.

But, the smaller machines you have listed are not out of the question for a hobbiest. I've often thought I'd rather have a 1.5 horse shaper than a router table. You can use a router bit collet and/or small shaper bits and not end up spending much more than a tricked out router table.

Let us know what you end up with.

-Steve

[C Scott McDonald]

Looks like everybody is giving you great advice.

But just to stress...Buy the best and I mean the best you can possiable afford power feed. You think having a problem with a router is not fun wait until something goes wrong with a 3 or 5 horse shaper spinning a big bit. Things can go bad at the blink of an eye. Been there, done that, did the panic finger count. Fortunately all are still accounted for. Certainly not trying to scare you but they can be eye opening in a hurry.

Just my two cents from using one more then I care to think of.

Good luck and hold on tight!

Scott