Face Grain vs. Cross Grain

[Mark Rios]

OK..here's a question.....what is the difference between "face grain" and "cross grain"?

For example: Let's say I have a piece of maple, 4/4 by 8" wide and 36" long. I rip it so that i get two pieces that are 4" wide each (i know, i know, just forget the kerf). Which faces are cross grain and which are face grain? How do I know?

Thanks for your help as always.

[Tim Sproul]

I'm not an expert...but here is my understanding.

you have a single board....you have face grain along the 4 long "faces". 2 of those being edges.....these would be parallel with the vertical axis of the tree. You have end grain with is the grain perpendicular to the face grain - 2 of these on a typical board. face grain is also called long grain.

Cross grain is a joint description where the face grain of one member is at 90 degrees to the face grain of another member. lap joints, mortise and tenon, box joint....lots of joints rely on this cross grain glue surface for their strength. dovetails also rely upon a cross grain glue joint but they have the added strength of a mechanical interlock.

An edge joint is a long grain to long grain joint....

hth

[Joseph N. Myers]

Mark,

I really like Tim's explanation, especially on construction of lap joints, mortices, --- really makes sense and probably all that most people need to know, including myself. However, I know from past experiences that when talking about wood definitions, it can get real complicated and in my opinion, quite confusing.

So I pull out the 1st four books I have on the subject (I have more) to take a quick look (Good Wood Hand Book; World Woods In Color; Encyclopia of Wood, Time Life; and Identifying Wood, Bruce Hoadley). And that proved what I thought and that being there is a lot written about the subject.

Much of it goes on and on about 30 to 60 degrees and 45 to 90 degrees cuts to the growth rings, approaching or coinciding with a radial surface, etc., etc and I'm sure their are many Creekers out their that could answer exactly what that is/means.

To your question about face and cross grain (and again, I'm quoting from the above mentioned books).

"End grain". To start with, "straight grain", the fibers run parallel to the main axis of the tree. "End grain", the fibres do not run parallel to the main axis. So there you have "end grain".

"Face grain". "Face grain" is not mentioned in any of the above books!! So I searched the web and found many references, McFeely's catalog being one of the best:


"Most of the furniture knobs available today are turned from dowel stock. This results in porous end grain being the "face" of the knob. End grain does not accept finishes, especially stains, in the same manner that the flat grain of lumber will. The darker colored knobs then stand out like a sore thumb. Face grain knobs avoid all this. Their grain pattern is oriented to minimize the amount of exposed porous end grain".

That makes sense to me, I guess, so back to the books going under the assumption that "face grain" is a general classification. The books say there are 8 types of grain (straight, cross, interlocked, spiral, wavy, curly, irregular and diagonal). Based on the way the log is sawed (flat, quarter or rift), the angles, the wood, the part of the tree (i.e, burls), the grain pattern, etc., you get your different "classifications" such fiddleback, quartersawn and the likes.

Examples given are wavy and curly grains produce "fiddleback" or beeswing" figure; wavy grains combined with spiral grain cause "block mottled" figure, etc. And it goes on and on.

A couple of other things from the book. "Course grained" and "fine grained" actually refer to the texture of the surface and not to the grain. "Edge grain" is generally referred to as quartersawn. And there are many more.

Regards, Joe

[Mark Rios]

Many thanks for the replies, but I think I'm still confused (you knew I would be). I probably shouldn't have used the hypothetical and come right out and asked about the specific issue, so....here it is;

I saw a website that sold cutting boards. Their main type of boards are made with long rips of different kinds of wood, as opposed to an end grain cutting block. These would be similar to the ones portrayed in the SMC tutorial and the one in my past post. Anyway, this website/company said that they used cross grain wood instead of inferior face grain wood. Again, this was not an
end grain construction.....these were lengthwise rips.

Am I to understand then that there would be a difference in the quality of the cutting board if one was to orient the pieces of wood so that a particular part of the grain was facing up, like the difference between a quarter sawn grain rip face and a flat sawn rip face? Is this what they are referring to?

Thanks again for your help.

[Tim Sproul]

My assumption would be that they mean they use quartersawn sticks in their lamination.

Face grain is often referred to as the pattern typical of a plainsawn board. This is what gives white oak a "wild" grain pattern similar to rotatry cut fir plywood. Face grain is also what gives a "cathedral" pattern often used for panels in doors. Cross grain likely means the grain pattern seen with quartered or "crossed" cut lumber. Quartered lumber...IIRC....is/was referred to as crossed since the sawyer always crossed the middle of the log when sawing....

That would just be my unedumikated guesstimate. Take with a LARGE grain of salt

[Joseph N. Myers]

Mark,

I went back to the books and now that you gave the particulars, it makes more sense.

I did look back on my description of "end-grain" (the fibers do not run parallel to the main axis) should have really been called "cross-grain". A better definition for "end-grain" will be found in the next paragraph

Logs can be cut different ways (through and through, plain-sawn, quarter-sawn and I'm sure others) yielding different cuts of wood (plain-sawn, rift-sawn, quarter sawn and agin, I'm sure others). Now the same board can be plain-sawn on the top and bottom and quarter-sawn on the sides or rift-sawn on both sides, etc. It depends on how the growth rings meet the surface of the wood. When the grow rings meet the surface of the wood at close to or at 90 degrees, it is called "end grain".

Grab a couple of pieces of wood that you can see the growth rings, plain sawn on the top and bottom, quarter-sawn on the sides of the board (growth rings parallel to the sides of the board). Look at them at different angles and you'll see what I mean.

Now to your question about the cutting board where long board are cut into strips and edge-glued back together. Quarter-sawn lumber is more stable than other cuts of lumber and hence, better suited for things like cutting boards. If the boards are already quarter-sawn, just ripping the boards and gluing them work fine. If they are not quarter-sawn, rather plain-sawn, rip the strips, put them on their side and glue them.

That is basically what the web site is saying (and also Tim) --- all they are saying is that they are using wood that the quarter-sawn part is facing up.
Using regular wood, ripping it so it becomes quarter-sawn is cheaper than buying quarter-sawn along with the fact, quarter-sawn is harder to find. Also, if the wood is 3/4 thick and you want the cutting board 1", you rip the pieces 1"+, turn them on the side and glue. (This is how your 2" work benches).

Regards, Joe

[Mark Rios]

BOY-O-BOY.......you guys are awesome!!! The wonders of the internet and especially this group of forums with you folks to help us out is beyond measure. Thanks so very much for the information. Your information was exactly what I was looking for....thanks so very much.