Comments on grizzly table saws.

[Alex Shanku]

I am slowly getting rid of Asian machines in my shop. I'm pretty close, only have a band saw and a drill press, both Jet.

Same here. I only have to replace my planer and drill press. Most likely with a Parks or Powermatic 12" and a Delta 14" DP.

[Alan DuBoff]

Same here. I only have to replace my planer and drill press. Most likely with a Parks or Powermatic 12" and a Delta 14" DP.

I picked up a Parks planer and have a motor for it, but need a switch/starter for it, as it is a 3 phase motor. I do have an old walker turner motor, come to think of it. I might be able to use that with the Parks.

I passed on a bandsaw a while back as it had babbit, and now sorry I did, but maybe a nice ball bearing model will pop up...that would be preferred.

I'd love to have a Clausing drill press, they made some excellent drill presses with nice heavy tables. I've seen some nice Powermatic drill presses though, they made some decent ones. As with most old iron, availability often dictates what one ends up with.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Same here. I only have to replace my planer and drill press. Most likely with a Parks or Powermatic 12" and a Delta 14" DP.

If I can ask, why are you guys getting rid of your Asian machines? I'm not big on Asian anything either, I'm more for European stuff. That's one of the main reasons I was looking to Laguna for my first J & P. Then i found out their "Platinum" line is ALL made in freakin' Asia. At that point, its tough to spend a grand more for a J&P than the Grizzly...for what, the Laguna name? b.s.

If i were making money with wood working, I'd certainly be looking to Euro stuff. I'm not quite convinced "Made in the USA" is all that great either. Don't get me wrong, I'm probably more patriotic and proud of the US than the next guy, but just because its made here doesn't mean its of any better quality - unfortunately.

Greg - don't cut corners and cheap out, just buy the best you can afford and be satisfied.

[Alan DuBoff]

If I can ask, why are you guys getting rid of your Asian machines? I'm not big on Asian anything either, I'm more for European stuff. That's one of the main reasons I was looking to Laguna for my first J & P. Then i found out their "Platinum" line is ALL made in freakin' Asia. At that point, its tough to spend a grand more for a J&P than the Grizzly...for what, the Laguna name? b.s.

I started to replace my machines as most of the modern machines made in Asia are inferior to better quality industrial machines that were made in America from the early part of the 20th century up until about 1960 or so.

I'm not making money with woodworking, it is a hobby, yet I prefer to have industrial type machines, and they can be had in vintage form.

If i were making money with wood working, I'd certainly be looking to Euro stuff. I'm not quite convinced "Made in the USA" is all that great either. Don't get me wrong, I'm probably more patriotic and proud of the US than the next guy, but just because its made here doesn't mean its of any better quality - unfortunately.

I'm looking for vintage machines though, primarily 3-phase machines that are tossed out at pennies on the dollar, in many cases hauled off to the scrap yard. Saving these old machines is a treat, IMO.

These industrial type machines are a great value on today's market. Certainly not for everyone, but for those of us that don't mind bringing these beasts back to life, there's plenty of it left inside of them in most cases. I paid $600 for a 5HP direct drive table saw, $125 for a 1/2 HP 6" Jointer, $250 for a 12" planer...these are all excellent examples of industrial quality machines that can be cleaned up and produce excellent results. All of these have older, heavy, cast iron tables. These were machines made to run in production/manufacturing environments for the most part.

I also have a few old metalworking machines, a Nichols Horizontal Hand Miller from the 40s and South Bend 9A Lathe from the 40s to name two.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Gotcha, Alan. I sort of read into your post that you were swapping for newer machinery.

There is no doubt the old-school US stuff is much better built than current asian machinery...

A few years back I found this local guy that was into everything - realestate, auctioning, all kinds of stuff. One thing he also did was drive all over creation buying "junk" old machinery and cleaned it up to sell it. I passed on two old Unisaw's because I didn't like the fence. ??? Yeah, a couple years later I became less ignorant and realized my mistake. Shoulda, woulda, coulda....life goes on.

[Karl Brogger]

There is no doubt the old-school US stuff is much better built than current asian machinery...

Hate to tell ya, its better built than the most of the current north american machinery, that includes the model 66 as well.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Hate to tell ya, its better built than the most of the current north american machinery, that includes the model 66 as well.

Preaching to the choir...Not much out there beats the old iron. But, let's face it, for the hobby guy or even the small 1 or 2 man shops, the asian stuff can suffice...for certain machines.

[Bill White]

I laud the never ending quest for excellence as much as anyone, but, how much more accuracy is really needed? I need a good 90 degree cut. I get it. Same with a 45. I rip the board. I don't mic each end once the fence is set.
My TS table is within .003 of flatness. Do I need to get it to .001?
Of course if we have a monsoon (like this week) all bets are off anyhoo.
I also like my old stuff (tools that is). I get a great deal of enjoyment fixin' up a quality hand-me-down.
Bill

[Karl Brogger]

I'm more concerned with the quality of components, and the reliability of the machine than anything else. Accuracy is easy when everything is tight and quality.

[Alan DuBoff]

Gotcha, Alan. I sort of read into your post that you were swapping for newer machinery.

There is no doubt the old-school US stuff is much better built than current asian machinery...

Much of it is, but sometimes there are various things to consider, like the time it might take to get the machines going, the time to clean the rust off of them (many are covered in it), and sometimes having to fabricate a part. Rescuing some of this old machinery is not for everyone. But for those that are attracted to it can get some mighty fine machines at very reasonable prices.

A few years back I found this local guy that was into everything - realestate, auctioning, all kinds of stuff. One thing he also did was drive all over creation buying "junk" old machinery and cleaned it up to sell it. I passed on two old Unisaw's because I didn't like the fence. ??? Yeah, a couple years later I became less ignorant and realized my mistake. Shoulda, woulda, coulda....life goes on.

Those unisaws are dangerous, there´s a guy running around rabid at the mouth trying to figure out if he has the first unisaw shipped, he fell over the edge...maybe it´s a good thing you didn´t like the fence.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Those unisaws are dangerous, there´s a guy running around rabid at the mouth trying to figure out if he has the first unisaw shipped, he fell over the edge...maybe it´s a good thing you didn´t like the fence.

Now that's hilarious! There certainly are guys out there that are really, shall we say zealous, about old tool restoration. Uni's tend to fall into the "cult" category I think.

[Alex Shanku]

If I can ask, why are you guys getting rid of your Asian machines? I'm not big on Asian anything either, I'm more for European stuff. That's one of the main reasons I was looking to Laguna for my first J & P. Then i found out their "Platinum" line is ALL made in freakin' Asia. At that point, its tough to spend a grand more for a J&P than the Grizzly...for what, the Laguna name? b.s.

If i were making money with wood working, I'd certainly be looking to Euro stuff. I'm not quite convinced "Made in the USA" is all that great either. Don't get me wrong, I'm probably more patriotic and proud of the US than the next guy, but just because its made here doesn't mean its of any better quality - unfortunately.

Greg - don't cut corners and cheap out, just buy the best you can afford and be satisfied.

Well, to tie into what Alan has already said, there are a few reasons. In no particular order, really. I like the quality of the old machines. The engineering/design/toolmaking process 50+ years ago was amazing. I like cast iron (high quality cast iron). These tools worked in a production environment for decades and are still kicking; they are tough and have a proven track record. There is a pride, not unlike finishing a woodworking project, you feel when you complete your machine restoration and put it into use in your shop. It is also a learning experience for those, like me, who are fascinated my machinery. Also, you can often find/restore a machine for a SMALL fraction of the price of something new. There are other reasons why I favor the old American machinery, but they all tie back in together.

Anyway, sorry for the lack of paragraph structure, I was just rambling what came to mind.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Well, to tie into what Alan has already said, there are a few reasons. In no particular order, really. I like the quality of the old machines. The engineering/design/toolmaking process 50+ years ago was amazing. I like cast iron (high quality cast iron). These tools worked in a production environment for decades and are still kicking; they are tough and have a proven track record. There is a pride, not unlike finishing a woodworking project, you feel when you complete your machine restoration and put it into use in your shop. It is also a learning experience for those, like me, who are fascinated my machinery. Also, you can often find/restore a machine for a SMALL fraction of the price of something new. There are other reasons why I favor the old American machinery, but they all tie back in together.

Anyway, sorry for the lack of paragraph structure, I was just rambling what came to mind.

That's as good of reasoning as anything. I love machinery too - my wife tells me I have too many hobbies as it is, so I have to pick and choose my time. Hunting season, to reloading, to sport bikes (track days, street) to woodworking...somehow i have a job in there too...

Don't worry about paragraph structure - that's for soft skill/english majors. I'm a comp. science/engineering guy so I'm lucky I can even carry a reasonable conversation - be it this way or in person.

[Don Bullock]

As you know first hand, woodworking can be dangerous. Even when you think you are being careful and doing everything right. It's what you don't know that can get you. After woodworking for over 40 years and having two blade strikes, I purchased a Saw Stop. I wish all my machines had the technology of the Saw Stop. I think you can't afford not to have one.

Richard

While I haven't had the blade strikes that Richard has suffered nor his extensive experience in the woodworking shop. For me buying a SawStop was a "no brainer." I, for one, truly appreciate people like Richard who share their extensive experience here on Sawmill Creek and are willing to share their experiences with us. If people like him, Per and Mark Singer have SawStos in their shops, someone like me with far less experience and skill truly needs to seriously consider getting one.

Yes, I have a Grizzly G0490 and like it, but if SawStop had a jointer I would have looked into buying a jointer from them. Before anyone jumps on this post who thinks I shouldn't have spent so much and I'll forget how to use it safely, may I add that the SawStop has made me much more aware of safety with all my machines than before I bought it. No, they are not for everyone, but for me it was the best choice.

[Scott Coffelt]

I've had a 1023S for probably 10 years now, it has been a work horse. As for Grizzly machines, I've been pleased with everything I have bought. I did have some issues with a disk sander early, but they took care of it.

If I was in the market today for a TS, I'd be looking hard at a sawstop. That added safety is a big factor.