Broken G0634 after 20 bdft

[Chuck Wintle]

let's hope the third time is the charm

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Good greif Dan, you're cursed!

When my Felder combo came in, it was held down to the pallet in a similar fashion as the Griz. The brackets are a clever little thing that eliminate destroying any paint, but the idea is the same. The main body of the Felder weighed probably 1600#, and it was screwed down with 8 of those brackets IIRK. Wonder if Griz could just use more brackets?

[M. A. Espinoza]

Dan,

Been following the thread, pretty tough luck.

I would advise turning around, shutting off the lights, closing the door to the shop, taking a walk and petting the dog. Then call Grizzly and tell them they get one more shot.

You shouldn't have to repair damage from a freight company so a third machine should be sent. All you were trying to do was give Grizzly money for one of their machines the rest is Grizzly's concern.

On the third machine even though it is a huge pain for Grizzly; before they ship they need to unpack, check it, (power up, check operation, table flatness alignment etc.) then repack, strap it down, double crate and send it to you. And get those other two out of your way, or let you sell them for scrap. Normally those steps would be completely out of the question for a tool dealer in their price range but the inconveniences you've had to deal with are not small.

I'm not saying that Grizzly caused the damage. It clearly was the freight company. I'm sure that the freight company's rep is getting an earful. Grizzly is a good company and I have no problem's with how they have handled it.

Things happen but since you have had to deal with extraordinarily bad shipping unfortunately they need to go to extraordinary lengths to rectify.

Good luck.

[Al Navas]

I have NOT read every single post in this thread - I just skimmed it, and would like to add the following:

I have several Grizzly machines in my shop.

1. The first ones I ordered were the 8-inch jointer, and the 17-inch band saw. They arrived in perfect condition.
2. A few weeks later I ordered the oscillating spindle sander. It arrived in perfect condition.
3. Then I needed a drill press. I ordered the 12-speed machine, and it arrived in perfect condition.
4. Then I ordered a shaper. Upon arrival, the driver suggested I look in the truck, before we unloaded, as he mentioned he suspected damage, based on the appearance of the packing material. Sure enough, the entire thing looked like it had toppled over, the packing failed upon impact, and the cast iron had broken. A heck of a whack! I simply wrote on the papers "Shipment rejected due to damage", returned the papers to the driver, and off he went.

As I had to get something quickly (bought something else locally), I canceled the order. Shiraz and his people made good on their side, and reimbursed my credit card within 48 hours, no hassle, no questions asked.

I will order the heavy iron from Grizzly again. It is Shiraz and his policies that make Grizzly a great company to deal with. The message is a tad slow to get to some of his people, but eventually it does.

But it IS the shippers that seem to hire just about anyone off the street, no training, nothing - and they care less and less with each passing day.

Now, about this other machine from...


.

[dan lemkin]

Talked with a bunch of Grizzly folks today. The freight dept noted there are only G0634's in the washington warehouse... not a small trip...

From Jen in Freight Dept: As we discussed on the telephone, we are in the process of thoroughly inspecting a replacement G0634 before we send it to you. I spoke with our Quality Control Manager after I got off the telephone with you, and he confirmed that our engineer is working on this today, and actually plans to call you to discuss once he's finished going over the machine.

I have set up return authorization ###### for the most recent damaged machine you received (RA ###### was already created for the first damaged machine). Please write this number on the outside of the crate. I am working with UPS Freight to try to have both damaged machines picked up at the same time your replacement is delivered. As I mentioned on the telephone, I will contact you again once I hear from UPS Freight to let you know what we've figured out. I will also contact you when your replacement machine is ready to ship.

Again, we are very sorry for the multiple problems you have had with your recent orders and for the inconvenience it has caused you. If you have any questions or concerns before you hear back from me, please feel free to contact me at this e-mail address (which I monitor constantly throughout the day) or by telephone at ###-###-####

I talked with Bo at tech support who was nice and professional as always. He advised me an engineer in washington would go over the machine carefully and call me.

I talked with Shaun who noted that he measured the tables, and that they were off < .001 inch. He cleaned the cutterhead and tables. He did note that the manufacturer was shipping the units with the planer feed wheel engaged which did result in a permanent dent in the polyurethane wheel. He put it on a lathe, and fixed that. He checked over everything and then tested it. I got this email:

I enjoyed speaking with you today. I've finished checking over your machine and I did go ahead and cut with it as discussed. I edge jointed a 42" long piece of maple at both the rear and front of the table and could see no light at all when I held the board up to a Starret straight edge. I face joined a 32" x 10" board and it was dead flat as well. I planned the same board on both sides and it only varied 1-2 thousandths from side to side along the length. Pretty darn good in my opinion. Your machine should be crated and ready to ship out tomorrow. Let me know once you get it if you have any questions or concerns.

He said they are building a crate to withstand the cross country trip with bolt through bracing this time... Also with screws, so I can disassemble it and use it for the return trip of the first machine.

To be fair to Grizzly, some of my concerns may have been misplaced. He noted that the 1/16" of play if rotary is not a defect and does not take the planer table out of plane... I can not be sure what I felt was lateral and not rotary given the small amount of play I felt. He also noted that combo units really depend on the table clamps to true up the tables... and although the amount mine seems to be off was extreme... it may be an adjustment failure, not necessarily a manufacturing or damage issue.

As annoying an experience as this has been, it has been an absolute pleasure dealing with the folks at Grizzly. Considering that most of the issues I am contending with appear to be due to shipping damage, it makes their efforts that much more impressive and appreciated.

An interesting point Shaun he made me aware of... He mentioned that these machines can get thrown all over the place in the back of trucks just by driving down the road. Apparantly the shipping companies show them videos about what happens on the road, and he mentioned that it was really shocking and impressive... The issue is made worse by empty trucks and small trucks on the local legs of a trip. So some or all of the damage may have been a result of the trip and not necessarily due to a callous employee.

Hopefully this saga is nearing its end... After all this expense, my wife has created quite a list of furniture I am now required to build

[M. A. Espinoza]

And this is why Grizzly impresses with their customer service. Its been long time since I've had to contact Grizzly's customer service but even ten years ago it was not a hassle at all.

I'm glad they are taking all the right steps to make sure you finally get the tool you ordered in good condition. I won't jinx you by considering it a done deal but its looking good.

Freight companies can be a huge test of patience. We used to sell Italian leather furniture. Custom made and shipped halfway around the world, it would take four months to arrive and sometimes at the last terminal forty miles from delivery to us a forklift goes through it. Frustrating.

Having good people in the customer service department is so valuable to a company, sounds like Mr. Balolia definitely understands this.

[Alex Shanku]

And this is why Grizzly impresses with their customer service. Its been long time since I've had to contact Grizzly's customer service but even ten years ago it was not a hassle at all.

I'm glad they are taking all the right steps to make sure you finally get the tool you ordered in good condition. I won't jinx you by considering it a done deal but its looking good.

Freight companies can be a huge test of patience. We used to sell Italian leather furniture. Custom made and shipped halfway around the world, it would take four months to arrive and sometimes at the last terminal forty miles from delivery to us a forklift goes through it. Frustrating.

Having good people in the customer service department is so valuable to a company, sounds like Mr. Balolia definitely understands this.

I guess after reading this thread, and many others like it, how else COULD they have handled it?

I mean, the OP spent over $2500 on this machine. Only to end up with a broken machine, TWICE.

If grizzly wants to stay in business, this is the ONLY way to handle matters like this. Especially if its being covered on a web site where 1000's of woodworkers and potential customers convene.

I hope the OP gets his problems resolved. He is more patient the I am. I would have taken my business elsewhere long ago.

[dan lemkin]

The new J/P is coming on Wednesday... So Kevin (my pal from UPS freight) stopped by to gather the 2nd machine to make room.

I was thinking about offering my garage as a 4th warehouse for Grizzly...but alas... it is too small.

[Lee Hingle]

I have neither the space or the finances to purchase any of the larger WWing machinery, but if I were to fall into some sort of windfall circumstance (win the lottery), where I was in a position to afford both the financial end and the space restictions (large shop building). From the replies here and from other sources, besides I like the look of the Grizzly line of tools, both Woodworking and Metalworking, Grizzly would be my first choice because of the CUSTOMER FRIENDLY and bending over backward ATTITUDE of Mr. Shiraz Balolia and his company.

When I owned my own business, I was always willing to pay more for something from a company that STOOD BEHIND their products and who offered me the customer prompt technical information and prompt repair parts and/or service. In this instance WWers are actually paying LESS for a QUALITY PRODUCT, and getting the MOST IMPORTANT PART, A BUSINESS CEO who PERSONALY will work with his CUSTOMERS, to promptly work with his CUSTOMERS to resolve any discrepencies with the product, NO MATTER whose was at fault, the company, its empoyees or the shipper or shippers who transported the product to the customers door.

I SALUTE YOU, Mr. Balolia in your DEDICATION to CUSTOMER SERVICE and being the BOSS of such a Large Company who CARES about CUSTOMER SATISFACTION.

In my book that is called PRIDE and CARING, ABOVE AND BEYOND THE CALL OF DUTY.

Respectfully

Jr. Strasil

PS - If there were more people like you, this would be a much better world.

And an Old Saying just came to mind. Bad News travels and moves so fast, but GOOD news has a way of falling thru the cracks and travels oh so SLOW!

Harry,
No offense, but I think you are going overboard on this one. The OP could not get a replacement machine shipped to swap crates with the damaged machine until the president of the company intervened. He was going to get more "band aid" parts (Shiraz's words) to fix the brand new machine himself. That is nowhere near excellent customer service. I have Grizzly machines and I think they are a good value, but ever take a look at their return policy? 20% restocking fee and you pay the shipping back. Ever buy at Woodcraft or Lee Valley? 90 days (or more) no questions asked return policy. The president of the company does not have to step in to help you out.

Lee

[Joel Earl]

Dan,
Sorry to hear of your troubles. I guess I am glad that someone else out there has the same troubles that I do. It doesn't make it right though.

One machine it happens. Two machines bad on them. Any more than that and they need to do more than just replace the machines. Are these machines in a basement or easily accessed? I would not think you should be trying to fix these but I have never had new machines break on me before.

Greg

Jet table saw - broken arbor
Jet DC - bad motor as shipped
Jet AFF - wired wrong

It happens to them all

It shouldn't get past QC but it does. Good friend bought a sweet PM 2000 last week. He's still waiting for them to come back and get it also - the trunnion or something bad and can't move it.

It's 2009 - won't it be nice if this stuff ceased to occur!
It won't - so all I want is that things get remedied in a timely manner. It did not happen that way in my case on the above so right or wrong, I will not give them a chance in the future

[Robert Strasser]

I've had shipments of large machinery from two companies. One does it right, the other not so right. I've attached two pictures of a saw that was packaged extremely well. The pallet was made of 2 by 8's on top of 4 by 4's. The saw was bolted to the pallet and was wrapped with many miles of plastic wrap. Underneath the plastic wrap are boxes and parts that were secured with straps attached with staples to the pallet. And there must have been a thousand staples. It took me two hours to unwrap that saw and remove all the staples. But the really important part of the packaging were the sensors placed on the outside of the cardboard box. These sensors are for detecting any tipping or dropping of the package. Next to these sensors were lables that stated not to accept delivery if any tipping or dropping was indicated. I wonder if those sensors caused better treatment of that shipment? There wasn't a mark or dent on the cardboard surrounding the saw. I received another tool from this company in the same excellent condition. They know how to do it right.

The next shipment was not received in such great shape. It was a 16-inch bandsaw. You might not be able to see all the damage in the attached picture, but the pallet and surrounding wood are in bad shape. Actually, part of the pallet is actually missing. (I'm sorry the picture is sideways, I don't know how to change that.) Parts and accessories are contained inside the plastic. Nothing was missing, but everything was loose and banging around. I could not detect any damage to the saw, so I took delivery. After getting all the wrapping off I noticed the top door had a dent and the fence rail was bent. The fence rail was solid steel, about 1 inch square. It took a big force to bend that rail. The saw actually worked fine after all the rough treatment. I replaced the fence with an after-market fence that was better than the original.

The packaging of the bandsaw was pathetic to start with. What a cheap pallet and flimsy crating. I use the term "crating" very loosly. But if they would have put some of those tip sensors on the crate, I would have known that it had been knocked over. And maybe it would have been handled a little nicer by the shipper.

I'm convinced that the companies can do a better job of packaging. The reason they don't is because they make more money the way they are doing it now. It might upset a few customers, but not enough to affect their sales or profit.

[Dave Lehnert]

Harry,
No offense, but I think you are going overboard on this one. The OP could not get a replacement machine shipped to swap crates with the damaged machine until the president of the company intervened. He was going to get more "band aid" parts (Shiraz's words) to fix the brand new machine himself. That is nowhere near excellent customer service. I have Grizzly machines and I think they are a good value, but ever take a look at their return policy? 20% restocking fee and you pay the shipping back. Ever buy at Woodcraft or Lee Valley? 90 days (or more) no questions asked return policy. The president of the company does not have to step in to help you out.

Lee

Better read Woodcrafts guarantee again.

Satisfaction Guaranteed – We Promise!
We’re absolutely confident that you’ll be satisfied with your purchase from Woodcraft! If you’re not, return it anytime within 90 days and we will gladly replace the product, give you credit, or refund your money, whichever you prefer. Woodcraft’s Guarantee does not apply to power tools, which are subject only to manufacturer’s warranties. Special-order items or manufacturer drop-ships are subject to a 25% restocking fee.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I've had shipments of large machinery from two companies. One does it right, the other not so right. I've attached two pictures of a saw that was packaged extremely well. The pallet was made of 2 by 8's on top of 4 by 4's. The saw was bolted to the pallet and was wrapped with many miles of plastic wrap. Underneath the plastic wrap are boxes and parts that were secured with straps attached with staples to the pallet. And there must have been a thousand staples. It took me two hours to unwrap that saw and remove all the staples. But the really important part of the packaging were the sensors placed on the outside of the cardboard box. These sensors are for detecting any tipping or dropping of the package. Next to these sensors were lables that stated not to accept delivery if any tipping or dropping was indicated. I wonder if those sensors caused better treatment of that shipment? There wasn't a mark or dent on the cardboard surrounding the saw. I received another tool from this company in the same excellent condition. They know how to do it right.

The next shipment was not received in such great shape. It was a 16-inch bandsaw. You might not be able to see all the damage in the attached picture, but the pallet and surrounding wood are in bad shape. Actually, part of the pallet is actually missing. (I'm sorry the picture is sideways, I don't know how to change that.) Parts and accessories are contained inside the plastic. Nothing was missing, but everything was loose and banging around. I could not detect any damage to the saw, so I took delivery. After getting all the wrapping off I noticed the top door had a dent and the fence rail was bent. The fence rail was solid steel, about 1 inch square. It took a big force to bend that rail. The saw actually worked fine after all the rough treatment. I replaced the fence with an after-market fence that was better than the original.

The packaging of the bandsaw was pathetic to start with. What a cheap pallet and flimsy crating. I use the term "crating" very loosly. But if they would have put some of those tip sensors on the crate, I would have known that it had been knocked over. And maybe it would have been handled a little nicer by the shipper.

I'm convinced that the companies can do a better job of packaging. The reason they don't is because they make more money the way they are doing it now. It might upset a few customers, but not enough to affect their sales or profit.

Robert, you're right, the Felder pallet system is pretty darn good.

[M. A. Espinoza]

Harry,
No offense, but I think you are going overboard on this one. The OP could not get a replacement machine shipped to swap crates with the damaged machine until the president of the company intervened. He was going to get more "band aid" parts (Shiraz's words) to fix the brand new machine himself. That is nowhere near excellent customer service. I have Grizzly machines and I think they are a good value, but ever take a look at their return policy? 20% restocking fee and you pay the shipping back. Ever buy at Woodcraft or Lee Valley? 90 days (or more) no questions asked return policy. The president of the company does not have to step in to help you out.

Lee

I think the point is that Grizzly is a company that has a president that is accessible and does intervene.

At Grizzly's price point I wouldn't expect "white glove" delivery service. But by and large they do a good job and when things really go screwy they don't seem to leave people on an island waiting for a lawyer.

I don't expect Grizzly to be perfect but if there is a problem I expect them to make it right and it seems they do. I don't expect any company to have a "replace first, ask questions later" policy on large equipment.

If a business spent tens of thousands of dollars on a slider saw and there was an issue I don't think the first thing a manufacturer is going to do is send out a new one. Likely they will attempt to get the one they sent working. This seems normal, its not a jigsaw.

I don't own any Grizzly tools at the moment but I have and I've used them at shops. They're much better quality now than they were fifteen years ago and you can use them to make a living.

Someone showed a photo of Felder's crating and it is excellent. At their price point I would expect it. Higher price = higher expectations. Works that way when I sell too.

Unless we start hearing about lots of problems with new Grizzly equipment I would attribute most this ordeal to bad luck.

[Chris Padilla]

I've had shipments of large machinery from two companies. One does it right, the other not so right.

Well, the packaging is only half of it, though, right? Shiraz himself pointed out that good packaging can easily be destroyed by a careless fork lift operator. Short of encasing products in reinforced concrete, packaging is at the mercy of the handlers along the shipping route....