Outside but not outside the box: Cedar?

[Tim Allaire]

Was thinking about making a Shaker style table for an outside porch. It would be covered (a screened in porch). The thing is I was wondering if cedar would be okay to use. Does it move more than otherwoods outside. Suggestions? Finishes?

Tim

[Sonny Edmonds]

I think Cedar would be excellent.
Movement is a relitive thing. Where I live it is apt to split from drying too much than it is to move.

[David Keller NC]

Tim - Depends on whether you're thinking Western cedar or Eastern cedar. The eastern variety, by the way, isn't really a cedar at all - it's a juniper (juniperus virginiana).

These two are not really equivalent - the eastern variety is hard and dense, the western variety is a good deal softer.

But the biggest problem you're likely to have is the wood quality, at least with eastern cedar. What's sold at lumber yards is generally narrow boards, and they'll likely be full of knots. If you saw your own, you can occasionally get wide, clear boards, but these are highly prized.

So, I've a couple of alternative suggestions - the first is cypress. It's often available in wide, completely clear boards, and it's near totally rot-proof. It's also cheap, at least in the East (around $3 a b.f.). Much more expensive, but completely rot-proof, is eastern white cedar. Similarly, port orford or alaskan yellow cedar is very weather-resistant.

If you'd like to go with a more conventional species, genuine mahogany is highly rot-resistant, beautiful, and a premier cabinet wood. A less expensive option is white oak - also highly rot-resistant, and often available in large sizes free of knots here in the East.

[John Bush]

Hi Tim,
I built a patio table with eight bench seats using western red cedar over 16 years ago and it has held up beautifully. It is soft but machines well and if you can get some older growth stock it can have a nice range of color through the tight grain. I initially used a teak oil finish and the wood turned the usual weathered gray after a couple of years outdoors. Sanding brings back the original color, and the last several refinishings I have used off the shelf deck sealer and it has actually held the color better. It is light and easy for the boss to move around, it does ding easily but that gives it character. It is a bit spendy, even up here in the PNW where it is harvested---I priced a 2x12x10' and it was $68 and hem/fir was $9-----. I think it would make a beautiful shaker table, but there are likely other choices closer to home that would be more reasonable in cost and look great as well. I would lean toward mahogany, but then I have a nice stack of it in the shop!! Good luck, JCB.

[Ryan Griffey]

I use a lot of Western Red Cedar and my favorite finish is TWP Clear. It has an excellent UV blocker. For interior use I go with BLO.

I cut my own cedar as it is very expensive.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Cedar is an excellent choice. Both Eastern and Western varieties are softwoods. Hardness of either depends on the age and the amount of knots present. Both do very well outside, but Western is a better choice for less movement after drying.

Cypress is another good choice...it is softer than either variety of Cedar, but hearty outside.

[Neal Clayton]

another consideration is how you intend to join it.

most cedar varieties don't hold nails and screws very well. cypress would fare better in that regard.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I've never had a problem with either Cedar or Cypress holding screws.

[Mike Wilkins]

Flipping through the 2008 FineHomebuilding Annual Issue on Houses last night and saw some exterior entry doors with trim made with Spanish Cedar.
Stunning looks finished with spar varnish.

[Marcus Isaacson]

I have had good success using white cedar in settings like this. White cedar is fairly soft and may not be widely available in your area though.

[Cody Colston]

Eastern Red Cedar (which I assume you are referencing) is an excellent choice for outdoor furniture and will fare even better on a covered porch. No, it's not a true Cedar (does anyone NOT know that?) and there is nothing either hard or dense about it...it is a very soft wood...but it holds up to weather and insects very well.

I have about 400 bf of it stacked outside that I had milled from trees that a buddy gave to me. This is the third batch of 300-400 bf that I've gotten and the stuff is beautiful. It's mostly 4/4 thickness with some 8/4 and 8" to 4" wide.

Like Kelly, I've also not had any problems with it holding screws or nails...or with glue adhesion either. I use TBIII on outdoor pieces and even the cross-grain joints on a chaise lounge and Adirondack chairs are still tight after several years near the pool in my back yard.

On a covered porch, most any finish would hold up pretty well but for an utimate outdoor finish, consider epoxy with a spar varnish topcoat that has UV inhibitors...something like Epifanes varnish. Moisture absorbtion and release would be so slow that movement would likely be moot...especially if the varnish is renewed when it starts to turn a bit chalky. I would also seal any end-grain on the legs or supports with epoxy to prevent wicking moisture. It should last a long, long time.

[ken gibbs]

Why not use TREX artificial decking? I made some outdoor furniture out of Trex, galanized bolts, brass screws, and Gorilla Glue. This furniture sits on a pier over saltwater and the only noticable oxide was on the galvanized bolts after several hurricanes. I brushed the bolt ends and covered them with Gorilla Glue and no more rust. The only design concern is 5/4 Trex should have 12" centers vice 16" centers. Three X the initial cost for Trex but 4 X the life span.

[David Keller NC]

"there is nothing either hard or dense about it...it is a very soft wood...but it holds up to weather and insects very well."

Cody - With respect, this isn't true (at least the first part) though of course it depends on what you're comparing it to (everything's soft compared to hard maple!). I do a lot of my own tree dropping, milling and drying of local wood, and I can assure you that an old eastern red cedar's heartwood is quite hard and dense compared to the western variety, southern yellow pine, fir, and even poplar (a hardwood). You're correct in that a lot of the material offered for sale at lumberyards is fairly soft, but that's because it's from young trees. In Eastern red cedar, the younger trees have a fair amount of heartwood/sapwood inter-woven thoughout the board, and the whole thing is not very dense or hard.

Like you, I've never noticed any issues with mechanical fasteners not holding well in cedar, and it's amazingly rot resistant. Around here, though, it's highly susceptible to carpenter bees - many outdoor items in this wood are riddled with their 3/8" round holes and accompanying sawdust.