Shop power

[Tim Allaire]

I have a 16' by 19' shop currently running of extention cords from the house (which is about 150' from the side of the house which has the breaker box). What do I need to run to my shop to set it up with full electricity? Most importantly how much will it cost (would like at least 1 or 2 240v outlets). Help?!

Tim

[Chris True]

An electrician?

Sounds like an outbuilding, it is going to need a 4 wire run - 2 hots + nuetral plus ground. Because it is an outbuilding I believe it'll need a ground rod. Not sure about conduit or direct burial.

[Rollie Meyers]

1st place to start is what equipment are you going to have(or want) need to some idea of the load before anyone can say... As to costs, it can depend where you are.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Maybe this will help you, Tim.
You will want to run a good feeder for your shop. The distance you need to go, I'd run heavier wiring, # 4 or # 2 so you don't get too much voltage drop during the starting of your bigger motors.
What you plan to use in your shop has a lot of bearing on how much you should build for.
I belive 100 amps would be a good sub panel feed for the shop. You will very likely be adding to the shops load in time.
Buy once, cry once, done right.

[Rob Russell]

I agree with Rollie.

What is that you want to run, both now and long term? Do you have a big shop that you're planning on outfitting with big equipment or a small shop that pretty much dictates smaller machines? Will you want AC/dehumidification or heat in the shop?

In your area of NC, are you allowed to do work on your house or do you have to hire a licensed electrician? In most - but not all - areas of the USA, a homeowner can work on their own residence without being a licensed electrician. There are a few areas where only licensed electricians are allowed to pull permits and running power to an outbuilding is definitely something you'd want to pull a permit for. If you rent, you can't do anything permanent yourself.

[Tim Allaire]

I do own my house and would be able to do the work myself. I should have put in my original "post" that I wanted to know what kind of wire to run and how much that might cost (I guess I need a sub panel and ground rod). I plan to do all of the work myself (perhaps with help), but am under the same stance as Sonny "Buy Once, Cry Once". I guess #2 for a 100amp is the way to go. Plan to purchase at Lowes. Looking it up right now.

Tim

[Ben Franz]

I'll enter 1 vote for conduit vs. direct burial cable. At 150' it isn't a trivial cost difference but I've seen too many DB feeds go south to ever trust it. The gray PVC conduit is easier to work with but it has to be 24" deep IIRC. Aluminum feeder wire is around 1/3 the cost of copper but has slightly lower amp rating - there are several threads on this forum that address this question. The local building dept. can give you the final word on what's what in your area. Good luck.

[Robert Parrish]

I agree with Ben. My garage shop is only 75' from my house but 300 feet from the main panel. I had an electrician install a 100 amp service with several 220 circuit and they used buried conduit. I think it was around $2200 for everything. They also ran a separate wire for my A/C.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Since you haven't really gotten a good cost estimate from anyone who has posted yet, I'll go out on a limb with some numbers:

You'll probably want to rent a little trencher to dig the trench between your main panel and the out building. $50 for half-day?

You'll probably use plastic conduit to put the wire in, so 15 10' sticks of, say, 2" conduit, is ~$75.

You'll need some elbows, couplers, etc to get everything between the boxes: say ~$20

You'll need a subpanel with some breakers: ~$80

You'll need outlets and wire (that run off your subpanel into your shop). Depending on how many you want and distance from the box, ~$50

Finally (and here's the killer), you need 150' of 2/3G copper wire. This runs around $4/ft, but you should check around locally. So, ~$600.

Grand total: ~$875. Even with variations in prices from different sources, I'd think you could easily do it yourself for under $1k.

If you want to save some money, you could dig the trench by hand Or look for discounts on the wire and/or subpanel. When I was looking up the going rate for 2/3G Cu wire for you, I saw someone on CL had 250' of it for sale for $400. Use what you need and sell the rest... Likewise, it may be possible to find an old 100A panel from somewhere else (although they're only about $50 at a borg).

[Tim Allaire]

I appreciate the help from everyone. My plan is to scour the internet for sales and wait until I see a good deal on the wire and panel box. I plan to dig (below freeze line) myself, when the ground thaws that is, and finally to get some help with the wiring from an old friend who was an electrician. I estimate around $750-875, if I take my time.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Tim, accurately estimating your future needs is the key to neither under or over building.

For machinery in a single person shop, you would have a dust collector and one machine running at a time.

That would be in the 20 to 30 ampere range maximum, closer to 20 amperes or less continuous.

Add two 15 ampere lighting circuits and you're at 30 to 40 amperes maximum, closer to 30 continuous.

So a 60 ampere feeder would be as large as you need.

If you have electric heat, or air conditioning, add that also.

I find that most people over estimate their electrical loads.

You'll also have to take into account voltage drop for your distance, which may increase your conductor size.

regards, Rod.

[Eric Porter]

Tim,
I am speaking from experience when it comes to scouring the internet for deals on wire and a sub-panel, it is a major waste of time.

Unless you are looking for a used sub-panel the ones at the Big Box stores are hard to beat for the price ~$50 w/several free 20 amp 110V breakers.

As for wire I just replaced some 2 AWG Al with 3 AWG Cu running from my main panel through conduit to a sub-panel in the basement. The best price I could find online for 3 AWG Cu was .99/ft, but I purchased from a local electrical supply house (by the way - whose employees were extremely helpful, knowledgeable, and friendly) for only .51/ft. Another comparison I also purchased my 8 AWG Cu ground from the same place for .18/ft vs. .49/ft at the Big Box stores.

All this to say I would recommend contacting local electrical supply places and see what their prices are.

Eric

[Robert Parrish]

One thing you may want to check out is if you need any permits and inspections. I built a shop when I lived in Virginia and wired everything myself with a lot of 220 outlet in the walls. When I went to sell it the real estate inspector found all my handy work. I had to remove or disconnect the 220 wall outlets before I could sell the house.

[Rick Christopherson]

For a 16' x 19' workshop, your equipment will not need a lot of power. Even a 60 amp subpanel will be way more than your basic equipment will require. The only reasons that you might (stress might) need more than 60 amps is if you have a large electric heater (more than 5 kW) or welding equipment. It is a huge difference in cost between 60 amps and a needless 100 amps.

The default answer is that you should run a 4-wire system with ground, however, if you know that you will never run telephone, TV, or water (anything grounded) to the outbuilding, then you are permitted to use an isolated grounding system for the building (only need a 3-wire feed).

Regardless whether you use 3-wire or 4-wire, you are required to drive 2 ground rods at the outbuilding.

If it is a 3-wire feed, then the outbuilding is a main panel, which requires ground/neutral bonding. If you run a 4-wire feed, then the panel is a subpanel with isolated ground and neutral.