Chisel recommendations

[Steven Wilson]

Regarding sharpening... at the end of next month, I should be able to pick up a Tormek system for about $175 out of pocket dollars.

Don't think of the Tormek as the be-all end-all in sharpening. I have one and like it a lot but not for getting a great edge on chisels. It does a reasonable job at establishing a bevel angle but it doesn't get your edge tools real sharp. If you're not use to sharp edge tools you'll love the Tormek as it will probably sharpen tools a lot better than you are use to. However, once you have experienced truely sharp tools you'll find the Tormek lacking. For sharpening I use Shapton stones (ceramic waterstones), very fast cutting stones, either by hand (most chisels) or with a jig (plane irons). The Tormek gets used on turning tools, very light edge reshaping, initial prep of carving tools, planer and jointer blades, axes, adze, lawn mower blades (awesome), many kitchen knives, some scissors, and some chisels. But for my main woodworking chisels and plane irons I like a much more refined edge than what the Tormek will produce.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Jim,

Just a suggestion for you to learn the "basics" of our hobby. That will make the working of wood far more enjoyable in the long run.

As far as what tools you use, remember it doesn't matter what type of chisel (or tool) you use, sooner or later you're going to have to sharpen it!

Make your hobby work for you! If a large part of your enjoyment comes from the feel of a new L-N tool then go that way (Incidentally, I have about 6 or 7 L-N planes and love them). If your enjoyment comes from searching out and restoring old tools, then go that way.

The center of all this is working wood, and not the accumulation of tools (although that's certainly fun).

My turning point was instigated by several books (out of the several dozen I've purchased). For me, the helpful ones were the two by David Charlesworth and The Practical Cabinetmaker by James Krenov. The books are not really loaded with how-to details of various techniques, but rather have a more philosphical view of how they achieve results.

T.Z.

[Jim Taylor]

Hi Tony,

I agree to a point. For me the the process of working the wood is the more enjoyable aspect. I also feel the need to balance the creation process with the practical.

As an example, the little I understand of Shaker philosphy, suggests that they would embrace innovation while threshing out the excessive. The form does not need to be held in check by the process. An author I read when youger indicated that we need to maximize the things which bring us joy, while minimizing the things which do not. I have not felt much joy in the sharpening process so far.

I think my goal at this point is to get things sharp enough for usefulness. While not dedicating more time than I find acceptable. Perhaps in the future I will desire to bring that to the "can't get much sharper than this" mode of operation. Time is the same reason I looked for a new tool rather than an older one as well, just too little time...

I look out at that time Nirvana.... retirement. I know that I will not be one of those people who find retirement boring! But, alas, the wait is sooo long...

[Martin Lutz]

Let the chisel debate continue I have set of Marples, Two Cherries, and Swiss made. (I inherited my fathers tools.) The Marples wont hold an edge. I have been told that this is because of the way they are hardened. Annealed is the term I think. They are dipped in groups with the outside chisels becoming more brittle and the inside chisels more soft. If your lucky enough to get a chisel from the middle you have a good chisel. I have the two cherries with the plastic handles, I wish they were the wood handles. No complaints with the Swiss made. They are the ones I use most frequently. My dad always taught me to buy tools to last for your lifetime and that of your sons. I wouldnt go cheap on chisels. I hope this helps.

[Jim Taylor]

To add to the chisel discussion a bit....

I learned today that "The Best Things" drills the handles for the Ashley Iles chisels themselves. On their website they have 2 versions of the product, an American style and a British style. The American style is supposedly longer and with a round handle while the British style is slightly shorter with an octagonal handle (offered in Boxwood or Rosewood). I am guessing now that the length differences are in the handle size, not the chisel blades.

This makes me wonder if other vendors regularly drill their own handles to attached to the chisels. Logically, this approach makes a lot of sence to me. It is also nice to know that they will have handle stock available if I end up spliting one.

I expect to receive my chisels next week, but unfortunately won't get to use them for a couple of weeks...

[Joel Moskowitz]

The best things version of the Ashley Iles chisel is a shortened blade version of the standard English pattern Ashely Iles bevel edge chisel (which for some reason the best things calls an American pattern which is a different Ashley Iles chisels altogether). Of course when you shorten the chisel you thicken the sides which is a real shame. The handles as you point out are installed by The Best things.

I have no idea why they do this. On their website they say that the many antiques they looked at are shorter than the stock Iles bevel edge chisel. Probably because they are used and got shorter over time. Also it could be that with the longer octagonal handles they needed a much shorter steel body.


THe job of fitting handles is normally done by the cutler in the factory. Why the best things decided to fit them themselves is beyond me - might save some cost I don't know. It's a skilled job which looks dead easy but apparently isn't and can easily be subtly screwed up. I don't know any other retailer who does it. The reason is that in a factory that hand forges (like AI), the bolsters and tangs aren't always perfectly centered, they can be off a touch. So when the cutler drills the handle he compensates by moving the tang hole slightly off to where then outside of the handle registers correctly. And of course everything has to be in-line. Bench chisels are easier to handle than carving tools but it's still a skill.

BTW should you ever split a handle the factory will be happy to get you another or if you send them the chisel fit it properly for you. Any Ashley Iles dealer would be happy to help, just ask them to include a handle or two in their next order or see if they have a few hanging around.

[Jim Taylor]

I missed the shortend blade entirely when comparing the AI chisels between "tools for woodworking" and "the best things". I really thought the bubinga handles looked nice, but what pushed me to "the best things" was the octagonal handles...and the 1/8" blade in their set.

Hopefully, they have put enough handles on so that they know how to do it at this point. I was guessing that they needed to do their own handles because they were "special" order. Thinking that AI may not have been willing to do something different for one supplier.

Great information. Thanks.

[Joel Moskowitz]

Your point about the 1/8" chisel being part of the set is a real good idea and I just added another set of 6 to both the American Pattern the London Pattern which has the 1/8" instead of the 5/8".

[Pam Niedermayer]

...THe job of fitting handles is normally done by the cutler in the factory. Why the best things decided to fit them themselves is beyond me - might save some cost I don't know. It's a skilled job which looks dead easy but apparently isn't and can easily be subtly screwed up. I don't know any other retailer who does it. ...

The better Japanese tool vendors routinely receive the blades and handles separately, assemble when sold. Same with saws. The reason is the multiple options for handle wood. So far as I know, they don't have problems with doing this due to blade formation. Maybe you meant no other Ashley Iles retailer?

Pam

[Joel Moskowitz]

This is the first I have heard of this about Japan and I would question it. I cannot believe any US Japanese tool retailer would take the time fitting ferrules and tangs to handles and then doing the finish grind to make them a unit. I think the handles come pre-drilled but it's still a good bit of work and there is even more to do than a Western tool. You also need a fairly good sized shop. As an importer I have never ever been offered unhandled tools by any Japanese vendor. I also know that there are cutlers in Japan who fit handles.

It's true that fitting handles reduces your inventory and for a small company that is a savings and in traditional Japanese hardware stores that may have been the mode of operation but in that case the retailer would have had to have a full shop for grinding and if they were any size a trained cutler (or the shopkeepr would be a cutler as part of his training).

Saw handle fitting is easier.

Note: just like England where one handle maker supplies all the tool makers I Japan I don't know if they are down to one handle maker but they are close.

[Joel Moskowitz]

I made a small error in my last post. On a Japanese chisel after the handle is installed the bolster and the ferrule are ground as a unit (not the tang which is of course inside the handle and out of sight).

[Manny Hernandez]

Pam,
Just wondering what Japanese tool dealers fit their own handles? Because I've seen how individual sizes come packaged together when imported from Japan. The handles are fitted and each chisel is individually wrapped. I know sometimes they carry individual handles in case you want to replace a damaged one. Also noticed over the past couple years that some of the high end ones are coming with the hoop already set.

[Pam Niedermayer]

I think I'm guilty of a faulty assumption. Let me rephrase: I've seen Harrelson rehandle chisels while making some comment about how handy a process it is. By "routinely" I did not mean all the time, I meant that it was not all that unusual. I've received saws that have been rehandled. I naturally jumped to the conclusion that this happened "routinely." I might be wrong.

Pam