WoodMaster 718 --I need help!

[Daren Rogers]

Hey, I've never owned a planer before so bear with me. I bought a brand new Woodmaster 718, but have never been able to get a clean plane with it.

I've spent hours and hours on the phone with tech support. The guys are patient, but I don't seem to be able to solve the problem, which is this:

Every time I plane a board it comes out with wavy marks. Is this called chatter? the surface looks like someone threw a rock in a pond.

I've aligned the blades, changed them, set them with a magnetic jig.
I've taken out the plastic feed base.
I've tightened and adjusted the chain.
I've cinched down the four post rods.

Nothing seems to fix the problem.

Any suggestions? (I can't send it back I'm in Hawaii !!)

[Scott Vigder]

Did you joint a side first?

If so, is the jointer properly aligned and are the knives sharp?

[Daren Rogers]

No!

This is the easiest planing job in history. I'm using S4S lumber, trying to make it thinner. Anywhere from 2x8 to 1x12. And I get this wavy finish which takes a LOT of sanding to get smooth. (And even then it's not as smooth as if it were planed smooth.)

[Daren Rogers]

And yes, the knives are perfect. Woodmaster sent me brand new ones.

There's no variation from side to side, I got that fixed. But this wavy finish sucks. Is there a name for this?

p.s. I'll be out for an hour and will check for answers when I return. I've GOT to get it working.

[David Freed]

How far apart are the waves?
Does slowing the feed speed improve the surface? If it is chatter, slowing the feed to near zero would eliminate it and give you a nearly perfect surface.

I do not intend to start an arguement about jointing because I know many people think that process is a must, but I (or my employee) have planed 50,000+ bf of lumber to a smooth finish and never used a jointer.

[Scott Busse]

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_bas...8_Chatter.html

[Rob Diz]

Thanks for posting. I just got a used 718 (early 90s vintage I'm told by WM). Let us know how this mod works for you.

[Bob Wingard]

Are the feed rollers giving a consistent push/pull ?? I doubt they are out of round, which could cause speedup/slowdown of the feed rate, but they may have some slip/grab effect that might cause this problem.

Other than that, either the head or bed is "bouncing". Are the mounts for the flange-mount bearings absolutely tight ?? ??

If you grab the bed on opposite sides and jerk it up & down, does it move more than a few thousandths of an inch ??

Are the tiebars holding left & right sides of the machine in rigid alignment all tight ??

Does the condition get better or worse with different depths of cut ??

Are the blades perfectly aligned ?? One blade higher than the others can induce a harmonic vibration which gets worse, then better, usually in some visible pattern or sequence.

Can you see or hear anything that associates with the pattern the machine is leaving ??

[Steve Roxberg]

How far apart are the waves?
Does slowing the feed speed improve the surface? If it is chatter, slowing the feed to near zero would eliminate it and give you a nearly perfect surface.

I do not intend to start an arguement about jointing because I know many people think that process is a must, but I (or my employee) have planed 50,000+ bf of lumber to a smooth finish and never used a jointer.

I don't think jointing is a must to get a smooth finish, but I do think it's a must to get a flat board.

[Leo Graywacz]

Is it chatter or mill marks? You can have some large mill marks it you have the feed up high. Otherwise the board is somehow not being held down tight to the table which would cause chatter.

[Daren Rogers]

Guys,
I've read all your input and can say this:
1. The bed does not move. It's totally tightened down
2. The cutterhead doesn't bounce, but I'm thinking about the vibration issue you all mentioned.
3. The tie bars are tightened down completely.
4. The posts (I don't know if that's the right term--the sprockets for the chain are at the bases) are tight, in fact so tight I had trouble cranking the bed up and down.

So, I'm going to open up and look at the blades.
The waves are 1/4 to 3/8 inch apart and speeding up or slowing down they are the same pattern.
But I'll run some pieces tomorrow at different speeds and maybe post some photos. I'm going to re-check the blades, but I set them with a magnetic jig and they seemed to be perfect.

I know that this wavy pattern was reduced when I took out that plastic bed.

I'll work on it tomorrow and let you all know. Thanks for the help.

Steve

[James Suzda]

I'm going to throw some ideas against the wall to see if any of them stick.

One thing that will cause chatter marks with the Woodmaster is if you do not support the ends of the boards and they start to bounce up and down as they move through the planer. I use 8' long in/out feed tables with my Woodmaster to support the stock as it runs through.
Is your planer head perfectly true and round? Does it spin with no vibration at all? Maybe it came out of the factory out of balance.
Are your planer blades "actually" sharp? I think you mentioned something that you had new knives. This doesn't mean they are sharp! My first set of knives were not sharp as I would have liked.
Is your DC big enough to remove all the chips from the surface of the board. Some of these could be getting under the feed roller and could cause the stock to vibrate.
Last but not least how big of a bite are you taking on your final pass? If you are trying to hog off too much wood at one bite it could cause some mill marks.

[Daren Rogers]

James,

Good point about the dust collector, because it's the Grizzly 1HP dust collector and, to put it mildly, couldn't pull a greased string out of a chicken's ass. It's the wimpiest dust collector on earth--the shavings back up in the hose and then start overflowing all over the table. So maybe that's part of the problem.

I use support rollers so that can possibly be ruled out.

I do get vibration. That's an interesting thought, that the cutterhead might be slightly out of round or something like that.

The waves are the same no matter what speed I use.

Thanks, I'll be investigating.

[James Suzda]

James,

Good point about the dust collector, because it's the Grizzly 1HP dust collector and, to put it mildly, couldn't pull a greased string out of a chicken's ass. It's the wimpiest dust collector on earth--the shavings back up in the hose and then start overflowing all over the table. So maybe that's part of the problem.

I use support rollers so that can possibly be ruled out.

I do get vibration. That's an interesting thought, that the cutterhead might be slightly out of round or something like that.

The waves are the same no matter what speed I use.

Thanks, I'll be investigating.

Daren,
I used to use roller stands also, but went to full tables so the board would be supported for the full length. Also when I was planing 16 foot boards I was always running to catch one of the rollers because they would tip over. But, put your hand on the stock as it comes out of the planer and see how much 'bounce' is developed while it is moving through the planer.
The biggest difference with mine was when I put on a new SHARP set of planer knives. Then the lumber started coming out of the planer nice and smooth again. Just for the record 99% of the lumber I've run through the planer was red and white oak.

IF you have a dial indicator I'd take the knives out of the head and then check to see if there is any indication of the head being out of round or sprung. I know the head can be warped if the gibs are not tightened in the proper sequence.

I also use a DeWalt 735 and the Woodmaster produces just as smooth as lumber as my 735 does.

[Daren Rogers]

James, and all of you guys, thanks a whole bunch. These are all things I'm going to be checking.
I'm intrigued by the thought that the head can be warped. I have two heads, one for the molding profiles and one with the knife blades for planing. Maybe I'll swap heads and see if there is a difference.

The knives are sharp enough that I got cut about six times just placing them in the gibs! I think I'll follow the advice in the manual and wear gloves, but it's so hard to tighten things and feel the tiny little pieces, etc.