Need shaper selection advice

[Chip Lindley]

2004 SCMI T130 Class Shaper!!! I remember J.R.'s post VERY WELL! He also said the *pneumatic spindles* go for about $500 each. (none of my shapers cost that much) J.R. is a businessman who is incorporating this very expensive (even used) shaper system into his business. He will amortize his capital expenditure and recoup his considerable investment at tax time. J.R.'s computerized shaper is used by employees for repeatable setups with a minimum amount of time spent in change-over from one job to the next. I can well appreciate and understand his approach to shaping!

*Old School* ME, on the other hand, am a part-time cabinetmaker, now retired after 37 years riding the rails as a freight conductor. I am my ONLY employee! My objective was to accumulate good, *affordable* equipment over time when the opportunity presented itself. Add up what I have invested in my 6 old shapers, and I could not even buy J.R.'s 10 pneumatic spindles!

We have BOTH succeeded. As a competitive businessman, John does not have time to fiddle around. And, I enjoy restoring an old bargain very much! It's a Win/Win situation. We both have accomplished what we set out to do!

[Steve Rozmiarek]

2)If I go with the 5 HP model should I consider tilting spindle? What advantages/disadvantages are there to a tilting spindle machine? How easy is it to get it back to an exact 90 degree position? What extra use would I get out of a shaper cutter if I can tilt it?
Costs are: ~$1,000 3HP, ~$2,400 5hp & ~$3,000 5HP tilting.

Erik, I'm a new owner of a tilting spindle shaper, and I actually just pulled off some cuts that saved buying a new cutter for. I wanted a bit longer nose on a bullnose, so I just angled a big roundover, one pass each side, and bingo! Being able to tilt the spindle will certainly give you more options with your tooling, which is expensive, and probably save you $. I have a Felder combo, which has spindles similar to JR's SCMI, but not pneumatic. I have two spindles, a 30mm and a 1 1/4". I leave the 30mm in most of the time with a rabbit cutter installed, and just lower it below the table. Rabbets, tenons and chamfers are the most common things I do, so being able to tilt also enables that one setup to chamfer.

A good titlting spindle shaper will have a good accurate indicator for angle. Mine is similar to a tablesaw, but has a clock like device that is more accurate.

I think you would be just fine with only 1 1/4" tooling if you wanted to just have one. I have several Euro cutters, so the 30mm is needed.

Look at some of the European machines, there are some features on them that are not common on the Chinese stuff, yet. I'm partial to Felder, but it's the only Euro machine I've used, so take that for what it's worth.

A bit off subject, but I had a perfecly good little Delta previously, that I rarely used. The reason being that I didn't have good tooling, and it was a bit of a bear to set up. I was never really happy with the inconsistant product. I asked for advise from the Creek crew, and they pointed me in the right direction on tooling, machines, and most importantly, a good power feeder. The new machine, actually a CF 741 combo, is an absolute joy to use, and I really do look for reasons to fire up the shaper on it now. This group of guys saved me from buying a machine that would have underimpressed, and sat idle.

[J.R. Rutter]

Absolutely Chip. You nailed it. At the end of the year, I have to look at a big tax hit and keeping some money vs. spending some and basically getting a 30% discount by being able to write it off. I started with a single Powermatic and eventually had 7 shapers set up with semi-dedicated tooling, digital height gauge retrofits, etc. Now I need that floor space back. For a garage shop, a compact machine that runs as smoothly as possible, with a power feeder will allow someone to mill just about anything. Removeable spindles help here, since you can fit a router collet if needed (but I would probably just use a router). I have had some great old machines pass through my shop over the years as well, including an old Northfield that I sort of restored before selling for what I paid for it.

2004 SCMI T130 Class Shaper!!! I remember J.R.'s post VERY WELL! He also said the *pneumatic spindles* go for about $500 each. (none of my shapers cost that much) J.R. is a businessman who is incorporating this very expensive (even used) shaper system into his business. He will amortize his capital expenditure and recoup his considerable investment at tax time. J.R.'s computerized shaper is used by employees for repeatable setups with a minimum amount of time spent in change-over from one job to the next. I can well appreciate and understand his approach to shaping!

*Old School* ME, on the other hand, am a part-time cabinetmaker, now retired after 37 years riding the rails as a freight conductor. I am my ONLY employee! My objective was to accumulate good, *affordable* equipment over time when the opportunity presented itself. Add up what I have invested in my 6 old shapers, and I could not even buy J.R.'s 10 pneumatic spindles!

We have BOTH succeeded. As a competitive businessman, John does not have time to fiddle around. And, I enjoy restoring an old bargain very much! It's a Win/Win situation. We both have accomplished what we set out to do!

[Mike Heidrick]

I own a 5hp Delta spindle shaper and 3 wheel comatic feeder (Amazon deals). I look for crazy new/newer/brand new old stock equipment for crazy prices and have succeeded in building my crazy hobby shop for less than the 15 JR spindles as well pretty much.

The Delta HD shapers have removable spindles as well but no where near as nice as pneumatic ones. They do however can serve a similar function (and cost 1/3-1/4 as much). Here is the 1 1/4" one. You can install and remove the spindles without changing the height. This way the spindles are all at the same height thus preserving your setup. There is another threaded rod that threads into the bottom of this spinle. The spindle shown slides into the bearing/drive assembly and is keyed to fit. That secondary rod that is threaded into the shown spindle is then fitted with a nut on the bottom end of the drive assembly.



I so wish there was some way to own JR's two shapers he has for sale. I look at them and just drool. $170 each for a hobby shop is just crazy!

Another dream I have is that Laguna Panel Master shaper system. It is even more at $15K! It is a multi cutter system that has all the cutters for a door already mounted. The heights change, the fence changes, and you are ready for the next cut. The table is a X/Y precision glide system. It is nuts.

Using the multi shaper Weaver door system will change you as well. My mentor's shop has these and he pumps out multiple doors in literally minutes! Those setup with the belt fed feeders are a sight to see.

[Jeff Duncan]

Mike, $1700 for those shapers is not a lot of money at all! Sure for a hobby shop they're a bit overkill, but I paid $1500 new for my Powermatic 27 and those MiniMax are like new and better quality machines. I honestly would have bought one of them myself, but I need to put money aside for either a Holz-Her or Striebig panel saw, so no new shapers this year. Besides if things stay busy I'm holding out for a late model T-130 myself early next year

Seeing as Erik has now revealed his intentions for this new aquisition, I'd say if you really want new and want it to work well look into a Delta or Powermatic. I know there's a lot of Grizzly fans around, but I can't see buying a new shaper that costs less than some router tables and expecting very much from it. Or if you had the cash you could buy JR's machine and be a very happy camper
Sorry, don't mean to sound like I'm trying to be a salesman for him, I just think those are great machines for the price, I'll be quiet now.
JeffD

[Mike Heidrick]

Oh I know the value of JRs machines! Just that $3400 for shapers is not happenning anytime soon for me. Plus the fact that he is in Washington State and I am in IL does not help a dream come true!