Did your new Jet wet stone grinder stop running?

[george wilson]

Wilbur. How can you suggest that using shims is in any way something one should have to do to a jointer? And,if you move either table,they will shift. That is simply not a viable solution. I won't accept such a machine. Modern jointers USUALLY have their tables ground in situ. I don't know why the Powermatic tables were 1/8" out. Maybe they are trying to grind tables before assembly. In the beginning,Taiwan tried to do that. It was a disaster. I hear the earliest Grizzly machines were like that.

A machine which is made correctly,and avoids the use of loose shims is inherent to a machine which has longevity without adjustment,the very thing you are concerned with. As said,the only thing I would be concerned with about the very accurate Grizzly,would be the motor. Chinese motors are not well insulated: Their rotors are not dipped in insulating varnish. At the low cost of this jointer,I'd not hesitate to but a new motor if needed. I've really only had 1 motor go bad,though.

Beyond what I've said,your logic is so convoluted that I must have to think that you are jerking my chain about this,aren't you?

[Wilbur Pan]

I don't see where I'm doing any chain yanking.

Perhaps you're missing my main point.

[Joe Close]

I don't see where I'm doing any chain yanking.

Perhaps you're missing my main point.

I agree, he missed the point some time back... But it makes for a funny read..

And... my jet wet ginder failed to turn on right out of the box. The place I purchased it from had to order another from the factory. The second one worked. However, I must say I have not been "real" impressed w/ the quality. I've already replaced the blade holding jig w/ a tormek version of the jig. The jet jig would not hold a blade at 90* to the wheel, regardless of what I did.

[george wilson]

I am sorry,Wilbur. I cannot see how you think that alignment is not required,and shimming up a machine is going to make it reliable. Beyond caution about Chinese motors,the machine is just fine. Can you re word your point?

[Wilbur Pan]

I am sorry,Wilbur. I cannot see how you think that alignment is not required,and shimming up a machine is going to make it reliable. Beyond caution about Chinese motors,the machine is just fine. Can you re word your point?

If you reread what I've written, I never said that alignment is not required for proper jointer operation. But I'll try again.

I was responding to Jim's comment about tool reviewers checking the quality of components in the tools that they review. My point was that magazine reviews often make measurements of various parameters of the tool they are reviewing, and that I thought that often the choice of what to measure did not have much to do with how the tool held up over the long run.

I was using a jointer as an example. Of course I think that table alignment is necessary for a jointer to work properly, and that I would prefer not to have to deal with it at all if I was buying a new jointer. However, if the tables are out of alignment, I know how to fix that problem. And in any case, in the long run, jointer tables can and will move out of alignment with use, so knowing how to deal with this is a useful thing to know.

What wasn't measured in the jointer review I measured was how well the jointers held their alignment, which I think is a bigger issue in the long run. For example, many modern jointers have stop bolts that hold the position of the outfeed table. If the machining of the bolts or the screw holes for those bolts was sloppy enough that these bolts moved with use, the outfeed table would eventually move with use, and would have to be readjusted frequently. Unlike the table misalignment issue, I don't know how to fix this problem.

So for me, a commonly used parameter in tool reviews, jointer table misalignment out of the box, although annoying, is preferable to constant slippage of the table, which has never been measured in any tool review that I know of. In the first case, I can fix it, and my experience so far tells me it's a one time issue. In the second case, I would be stuck readjusting the tables, say, every few weeks, which would get old very quickly.

In an nutshell, what I'm saying is just because a tool review can measure something, that parameter may not have a whole lot to do with your experience using that tool. And that is my main point.

[george wilson]

Wilbur,I understand you better. But,I still cannot agree that shimming up a jointer is something that should ever have to be done,nor desirable in so far as the ability of the jointer to hold adjustment. It might be a bit difficult for anyone testing a brand new machine to predict future reliability.Even in car magazines they can't rate reliability of a new model.


I have never had much problem with any of the jointers I have used holding settings. If their outfeed tables did slip,I would just have improved on the clamping bolts as required.I personally would rather have to deal with slipping bolts than table alignment with shims on a machine that vibrates. My personal jointer at present is an 8" Bridgewood from 1982,made in Taiwan. It is so accurate,the wood sucks down when you lift it from the outfeed table after a cut,if you know what I mean. I personally think the Grizzly jointer will be just fine. It is made very similar to mine. The locking bolts worked just fine. We played with it quite a lot.

The Grizzly replaced a beautiful,clean old Delta from the 50's. I really hated to get rid of it,but the table was worn such that it was lower near the fence than it was near the rabbeting arm. It could not be gotten into such adjustment that it would cease snipeing near the fence,or causing a taper from the wood riding up when run near the other side of the table.

If my life depended upon it,I could have scraped the tables back to flatness with my Biax power scraper,high spot blue,and my precision straight edges. But,we had a daily influx of work to do,just as in a business,and I couldn't spend the time on it to save the low cost of a new unit. I used to rebuild lathes,but that was more for my own interests than for money.

[Wilbur Pan]

Wilbur,I understand you better. But,I still cannot agree that shimming up a jointer is something that should ever have to be done,nor desirable in so far as the ability of the jointer to hold adjustment.

Did I ever say that? You keep saying that I say such things, when I haven't.

Be that as it may, I would like to know how you would deal with a locking bolt that doesn't lock.

[george wilson]

Since I have a machine shop,as well as woodworking,I would just have made new parts,tapped new threads,or whatever was necessary. Sorry if I misquoted you. The question you ask is hard to answer unless I had such a case to examine. Has this been a prevalent problem with your jointers? I've used quite a few in 55 years,and never had this problem. The very worst jointer I ever saw was the new Powermatic,with tables so out of alignement that it took a 1/8" stack of shims in the outfeed table's dovetails.

[Wilbur Pan]

Since I have a machine shop,as well as woodworking,I would just have made new parts,tapped new threads,or whatever was necessary.

So I hope you can appreciate that not all woodworkers, including myself, have access to a machine shop. My small basement shop barely has enough room for woodworking operations as it is.

As such, I hope that you can appreciate that from my point of view, shimming jointer tables to bring them into alignment is going to be an easier thing than machining new parts to replace a faulty stop bolt mechanism. If I had a machine shop, I might think differently. It would be really nice to have a milling machine and a metal lathe for such things, but I'll need to buy a new house before getting those machines.

BTW, most of my machinery is 1940's era equipment that I bought used, so I've had to learn how to tune up the machinery I have. My jointer is actually a part of a combo jointer/planer machine, and I did shim the tables, as there was basically no other way to adjust their alignment. However, once I did that, it has been a solid performer, and showed no sign of going out of alignment, even though I have to take the outfeed table off the machine to go from jointer to planer mode.

[Michael Gibbons]

Well , all those previous threads concerning the Tormek vs Jet wet grinders were thrown right out the window, weren't they?

[george wilson]

I am new here,Michael,what was the gist of them?

[Chris Padilla]

Hand Tool section? This is the neaner section. We have tailed tools, we just void the warrantees when we take them apart to make them more to our neanderthal liking.

LOL

jim

Ewww...you folks in here need HELP!! Or is that PLEH??

[Michael Gibbons]

I am new here,Michael,what was the gist of them?

Well, there's the group that says spend the extra cash and cry once or the other group that says the Jet is just fine and saves $$$ but then these things pop up. I'm with the former. Mines about seven or so years old and hasn't missed a beat. Although it's about time for a new stone-wear and tear ya know after sharpening lots of everything. Jeff Farris chimed in on a few occasions and explained shortcomings of the Jet or the virtues of the Tormek- depending on your point of view. The Jet is a knockoff clone of the Tormek. No money spent on research and development or fresh ideas. too bad the patents are only good for seven years. If you don't know, Jeff Farris was the one demonstrating the Tormek to Norm Abram on the New Yankee Workshop. Would you rather have a real Ferrari Daytona Spyder or a Corvette with the fake body panels??

Michael

[george wilson]

I thought your answer would be along those lines. I happened to come across mine NIB for $100.00. It hasn't been any trouble since I found the beer can connector problem. I have no way of knowing what's really inside the motor,etc.. Just,so far,so good. I did almost take it back when it quit,as I'm no electrical tech.

Of course I'd like the Ferrari,until it came time to pay for repairs!!! That,of course,has nothing to do with the grinder !!! I have many fine tools,and machines,but it depends upon how important the grinder is to me. I also have a Wilton square wheel grinder like many knife makers use. It grinds pretty cool with blue belts,and takes metal off a lot quicker. I didn't really have to have the Jet. Don't you see that I am really just a truffle rooting tool pig!!!

[Michael Gibbons]

George, I am truly not busting your chops. I do hope that the grinder doesn't give you any more grief. Since the Jet was not out when I bought my Tormek, The option was not there. If I were new to the woodworking hobby and I was looking for that type of grinder, I would automaticaly steer towards the more expensive unit. That's just me hearing that phrase all my life-"You get what you pay for".