Saw Stop cabinet saw tender subject I know

[Tony Scolaro]

Howdy Folks. I wanted to ask some question about the tender subject of the SawStop cabinet saw. Especially of those who use it professionally and have owned a Saw Stop for awhile. I do want to buy one for the safety aspects. I really need the real dope on this saw.
First a comment: Let me share my thoughts on the tool and the company policy. I don’t like the fact that they don’t have service center lined up. To me the warrantee has half the coverage/value that is stated because I have to do the repair. I know this is the same situation we face with the "fake" blue Oliver we have today (I own a wide belt of theirs) or the white Mini Max. That fact that I have to fix there defects. Doesn’t sound right to me and at 4 grand. I say it is your defect send out a service tec. One other thing. Although some say they have had good customer service with them. The company has a love it or leave tone, their way or the high way and they are very specific about their way. Yes, I know the knee jerk answer back is well if you don’t like it don’t buy it. That is not the route I want to go down with the statement. I just being straight with the statement and just want to gain as much insight as I can. Not ruffle feathers. Thanks.

I have read the many, many, great post on the Saw Stop in this forum. I have talked to their tec. dept. and the local seller of the machine. I have agreed with those who put a value on keeping digits. I also agree with those who say it is no excuse for good habits. I have good habits. I also agree that a riving knife is important integrated part of the safety equation. I also agree with the fact that it is well made in its particular by today’s saws. I am basically an old American Tool guy and yes high quality Euro goodies. I have a lot of blue green tools from Germany. I saw the Saw Stop when I was buying a Kapex and fiddled with the Saw Stop and said wow, I am surprised this shiny thing is nice, interesting. Now, basically, I want one.

I just sold a beautiful Oliver 232 and I have lined up the sale of my Powermatic 66 to a friend when and if I pull the trigger. I am a lowly wood worker and I just can’t afford to make a purchasing mistake.

I wonder if anyone has real insight into Saw Stops sustainablity as a going concern these days. I would not want to have an expensive orphan in my shop?

Also they are pushing their 3hp if single phase as the better motor to go with than the 5hp? I have heard it three times from two different sources, including tec. dept. Explanation that you are pushing it with a single phase 5hp. I don’t think Baldor, Lesson, or Marathon feel that way. The Oliver 24" wide belt is a 10hp single phase. Any insight into their thinking? I know about proper wire size and breaker.

What is the overall evaluation of false triggering of brake? Has it improved much over the years?

Also I live in the country and power blips are a way of life, especially during winter months. Will these surges set off the brake system?

I ask these question in all seriousness and humility. I want to buy it. Please "talk me down". Thanks and let me say you folks are the greatest. Thank you in advance Tony

[Joe Jensen]

I'm not a commercial user, but I've owned a 5HP Sawstop for almost 3 years. I too worried about the ability of SawStop to survive as a company for the long haul. In the end here were my thoughts.
1) The saw could still be used without the safety brake in the event that the company failed and brake cartridges were not available, or the electronics failed. I would have to rewire it like a traditional saw, maybe buy my own mag starter, but it could be done.
2) I bought a 5HP because years ago was making some tapered raised panels and I really bogged down the 3HP PM66. I didn't want to worry later about not having enough HP. It was only $200 more so I got the 5HP. Having bought the 5HP, if I were doing it again I would only do the 3HP. Here is why.
- I had to rewire the outlet for my sawstop to get a 30amp line.
- The 5HP motor looks really small for 5HP. It is in a very small case, and I wonder how well it will dump heat if pushed hard for several hours straight. To be clear, I haven't had any issues, but wow, the motor is small. Smaller than the 3HP Baldor in my 1990 PM66. Also, I'm not sure I could fit a 5HP Baldor inside the base where the motor mounts.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Joe, who makes that motor?

[Ken Werner]

Great question Tony, I'm in the same spot you are - I want the SS, but just don't know enough to feel comfortable with the amount I'll have to pay. Looking forward to more answers from users. Thanks.

[Joe Jensen]

Joe, who makes that motor?

It's labled SawStop, so it's a private lable motor. It's made in Taiwan. Measures 6.5" DIA and about 12" long with the fan, the real motor case is maybe 11" long. Rated at 19.7A. Seems like a lot of motor in a small package.

[Simon Dupay]

I'm not a commercial user, but I've owned a 5HP Sawstop for almost 3 years. I too worried about the ability of SawStop to survive as a company for the long haul. In the end here were my thoughts.
1) The saw could still be used without the safety brake in the event that the company failed and brake cartridges were not available, or the electronics failed. I would have to rewire it like a traditional saw, maybe buy my own mag starter, but it could be done.
2) I bought a 5HP because years ago was making some tapered raised panels and I really bogged down the 3HP PM66. I didn't want to worry later about not having enough HP. It was only $200 more so I got the 5HP. Having bought the 5HP, if I were doing it again I would only do the 3HP. Here is why.
- I had to require the outlet for my sawstop to get a 30am line.
- The 5HP motor looks really small for 5HP. It is in a very small case, and I wonder how well it will dump heat if pushed hard for several hours straight. To be clear, I haven't had any issues, but wow, the motor is small. Smaller than the 3HP Baldor in my 1990 PM66. Also, I'm not sure I could fit a 5HP Baldor inside the base where the motor mounts.

I feel the same way about the 7.5hp motor in the SS at work it's smaller then the 5hp marathon on the unisaw.

[Per Swenson]

Saw stop in the pro shop.
We were early adopters. In retrospect I wouldn't have it any other way.
We also have the 3 hp model and its never failed to suit up and earn its keep.
One power failure during operation and the brake did not trip.
If you do this for a living and or have employees or family running the machine also...... there is no excuse.

Per

[Kevin Groenke]

Hey Tony,

You've probably seen my posts, but for some background: We've had 2 of the first 50 SS's shipped in a collegiate student shop since 12/04. The saws have not been without issue, but I've never regretted the purchase. If I had expected the saws to be perfect, I may have been disappointed. I've spent over $200,000 on equipment in the past 8 years and I can't think of a single unit that hasn't had any issues or has been absolutely satisfactory.

It seems to me you may be setting yourself up for disappointment here Tony: If you pull the trigger, it seems you may have buyers remorse if ANYTHING goes wrong with the machine.

The absence of service centers has never been a concern for me. I basically expect that we'll be servicing all of the tools in the shop and I think it's important to have a working knowledge of machine design and the technical aptitude to troubleshoot/repair/rebuild equipment. I'm too cheap to pay for a service call and it's not like I'm going to disassemble a tablesaw w/extension, outfeed and sliding tables to take it in to have a motor replaced or a switch fixed. Perhaps some higher end equipment has on site service agreements, but that doesn't apply to anything except the digital equipment in our shop.

SS's tech support has been phenomenal, they've talked me through a number processes and have even sent video of the swap of the elevation helical gears. We've been out of warranty for years and we still haven't paid for any of the repair parts they've sent us. We got a control station a couple months ago, we didn't pay for it, but SS's list price for it is $120, I'd guess Delta would charge AT LEAST $300 for a similar part, so it's good to know that SS isn't killing it's customers with parts sales.

I wouldn't characterize SS as having rigid protocols. Sure, they don't want people overiding the proximity detection mechanism in order to run a moulding head and advise against reusing blades after they've been stopped, but I haven't heard of any advice they've given that sounds unreasonable. I've spoken with them more than a dozen times, and I've never felt they were dictating specific use or procedures.

SS's long term business viability is anything but certain, but I don't think I'd be any more surprised if Delta went belly up than if SS does. Regardless, I'm pretty confident that there are enough SS's out there that parts will be available even if the company itself doesn't make it. If I found out that the future was questionable, I might stock up on cartridges and buy an extra control station, those are really the only unique parts that are likely to need replacement. If the brakes become unavailable, it's a 30 minute job to rewire the saw to operate conventionally.

We haven't had an unexplained trigger in years: of 15+ triggers we've had, only 2 had an unclear cause, I think I didn't get the whole story on those incidents since I wasn't in the shop when either occurred.

Our saws are 5HP, 1PH, both motors were replaced under warranty due to stationary switch failure. I repaired the failed switches, so I actually have 2 back-up motors. I haven't run a 3hp, so I don't know how it compares, generally 3hp is plenty of motor in a TS if you use decent tooling in good condition. I got the 5hp simply because they were only $100 more. I do think the 5 hp rating may be a bit generous.

We have pretty stable power and I think even a line conditioner, so I can't directly speak to that question, but I only recall one discussion of power irregularities causing problems. I seem to remember one particular user that blamed their wrist watch for some issues though I don't recall exactly how that come out. If your power situation is particularly unusual, you might ask SS about any likely problems.

That's about all I've got to offer, ask questions if you've got 'em.

g'luck
-kg

[Doug Miller 303]

When I was working in Idaho, I had the opportunity to visit a door factory. They were using a Saw Stop, so I asked about it. They said that it has already lowered their insurance rates and saved two fingers in a years time.

The cost of the brake is cheaper than paying for a new finger.

Doug

[Mark Singer]

Go saw so far!

[James Phillips]

It's labled SawStop, so it's a private lable motor. It's made in Taiwan. Measures 6.5" DIA and about 12" long with the fan, the real motor case is maybe 11" long. Rated at 19.7A. Seems like a lot of motor in a small package.

They have a physically bigger motor now. Mine originally had the motor you reference, but it had to be replaced and the new on is much larger. They have changed motor suppliers

[Tony Scolaro]

Thanks for the input so far. So Where am I at. To my way of thinking maximum safety in a table saw the SS. Looks pretty no doubt, I like shinny things too. Heavy yes. Smooth motor elevation, yes. Large table, sweet.
Two things probably not resolved in my mind is 1 easy scratching cast 2 the motor . Both indicative of quality. The cast, first I believe the General Canada built still use meehite process in casting tops. 2 more importantly, The motor small for hp rating means something. Also it is a proprietary motor mount in the way that the Unisaw is. You can probably weld up a mount to a Baldor Lesson or Marathon but who needs that. I am on my way to buying a SS. But I am really having problem with that foreign motor and I still think (so far) that something is fishy with the 5hp. In light of how the sellers say it is good but the 3hp is Stella or whatever superlative they use. Please, I am not being testy or insensitive, I am just nervous. The dilemma: The safety of the SS verse the quality of a North American built saw. Money aside, I save and spend on high quality tools Kapex, Domino, Lamello B jointer as par for the course. It is how I struggle to make a living building solid wood furniture. I am selling off two saws to buy one. I can't have it go down when I am obligated to others.
If it wasn't for the added safety brake, quite frankly, it would be General 650 Canadian made 3 or 5hp Baldor motor with riving knife. But alas, no brake on it. I want to buy the Saw Stop for safety but the Motor troubles me. Is anyone out there really pushing lumber through it. I mean a production or semi-production runs? Heating that thing up a bit. I wonder how it is rated? Continuous 40 degree?

Just trying to get past obstacle. My better judgement and the motor is a big one.

Again thanks for the input.

Tony

[Ken Werner]

So it sounds like nobody out there who has purchased or used one is sorry he did so?

[John Ricci]

Tony, I hear your concerns and I have to throw in my .02Cdn. I did buy the General 650R after looking at everything including the Sawstop and money was not the issue in my case. The General is a top grade saw with a Meehanite top, Baldor motor, riving knife and made right here in the frozen north. The fact that I am a Canadian admittedly was a factor in my decision but I am still not convinced on the SS given the relatively short history of production. I have read about all of the misfires owners have experienced and the support issues some have stated (fix it yourself). As I stated in another SS post, I'm still of the opinion that no saw technology replaces common sense and caution in woodworking and one day there will be a SS accident where the brake does not fire resulting in an injury which casts doubt on the concept.

My $$$ stayed in Canada and bought me what I felt was the best cabinet saw on the market today. The General has so far met and exceeded all of my expectations (despite a couple of minor issues due to owning one of the first saws shipped) so I couldn't recommend a better purchase for a lifetime or two of use. Of course, just my own opinion.

J.R.

[Bill Keehn]

Tony,

I'm pretty sure you aren't going to have an orphan in a few years.

Sawstop has one of the most popular and best made saws on the market and by far the safest. They are already the #1 selling saw and continue to gain market share even while charging much a higher price. Unlike some companies that have one or two good products and 10 average or crummy ones, they have one great product (ok, two if you look at the contractor saw). Warranty issues are minimal. The trade press loves them.

Sustainable as a going concern? Seriously? What more could you ask for? I don't know how they could possibly fail as a company unless they do something really dumb, like selling out to Sears or something.

The Sears Craftsman Sawstop... there is an idea that makes me cringe.

In five years you'll probably be wondering what to do about your american made car, but I doubt you'll regret buying a Sawstop.