Interior Trim

[frank shic]

brett, i would never pick PINE over MDF if it's going to be painted. MDF is much more stable than solid wood. just make sure you get the proportions right. check out:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...X0DER&v=glance

[Prashun Patel]

MDF all the way if you're painting. It machines easy and conforms to wall irregularities way better than any solid wood. Prime with Zinsser BIN and you won't have trouble with end grain.

I have MDF in my house and it holds up extremely well - especially on crowns.

The only place I'd use wood is on skinny moldings like shadowboxes, and on shoe moldings, because they get kicked way too much to be done in anything but wood.

I'm no pro, but I've done enough trim work in my own house to believe that a higher end end-product will be achieved through the clever use of built-up stock moldings. I'd spend my time on installation - not on milling.

[Matthew Voss]

I'll be the contrarian and suggest you don't use mdf as a first choice, especially having stated you aren't necessarily looking for the cheapest possible.

You won't find mdf trim with the kind of sharp and clearly defined profiles that are available in better quality fj pine.

MDF all the way if you're painting. It machines easy and conforms to wall irregularities way better than any solid wood.

Also, I'm not sure I would want the trim conforming to a crooked wall. Especially with baseboard, this only accentuates the bow/bend. I think straight trim will make a crooked wall look straighter and improve the look of the out of square corners.

Lastly, wood trim is much easier to cope without damaging the profile as the joints go together.

[Brett Nelson]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

Dan Hahr -- This home I'm building for myself. It is about 4,200sf finished.

Frank Shic -- I actually have that book in my lap as I type this. It is probably the most incredible book ever written for traditional homes like mine.

Allen Tomaszek -- I'm in Northern Utah. We don't have a lot of the problems with humidity causing things to go crazy here. Most days are 10% humidity. My budget is right around $5,500 for materials, but that doesn't include things like mantles, stair parts, or cabinetry of course.


Overall, I'm not against MDF as far as surface finish goes, but I've been told that if I were to case a window in MDF and a door next to it in poplar, that there would be a noticeable difference. That doesn't make much sense to me since the casings are just S4S flat stock for the pillasters. The crossheads would all be the same configuration, as would the stools.

[Brian Peters]

Problem is the edges will paint terribly unless you buy a premium grade mdf like Rangerboard. They would look noticeably different. MDF paints well looks great in moderation but doesn't take the abuse like poplar does.

[Brett Nelson]

The edges of the casings would be rounded though, so I don't think the MDF would have a problem then. I realize that poplar is more durable. I had intended to use poplar for door casings, but MDF for window casings since they don't take much abuse.

[Chris Padilla]

I recently trimmed out my living room remodel. I went with finger-jointed pine from Lowes. It took some time at Lowes but I managed to cull out good, straight quality stock. From what I could tell, it all came from South America. Most of it was quite clear and the joints do not show (it was also pre-primed).

Anyway, the price was right and it all turned out well.

I've put MDF in other rooms in my house and you know what, it just isn't durable. It is so dense that a little bump/bang on any detail will result in damage. I won't ever use it again.

[Tom Godley]

I must be lucky with MDF because I think is is great stuff - not perfect but better than most pine molding currently on the market. I have had no durability problems -- what durability problems have people had?? I find it more dent resistant than any pine molding!

The only complaint that I have is that some of the base moulding are a little thin -- but you only notice this if you mix molding types. Once it is all painted I think it looks great. I have never installed MDF purchased from the big box stores - maybe they sell a lesser quality?? I wonder if some are thinking foam molding are MDF??

The main reason I like MDF is you can get it in the large sizes that are an absolute fortune in wood -- if they are even available without special ordering a run. Also with MDF I never cope -- I measure the inside and out side corners with an angle gauge and cut the split angle -- use a little glue behind the joint and some Phenoseal in the joint.

I guess it all come down to what matters and where we want to spend our money. I would rather go with MDF and spend more on the hardware and the flooring.

[Prashun Patel]

You won't find mdf trim with the kind of sharp and clearly defined profiles that are available in better quality fj pine.

Also, I'm not sure I would want the trim conforming to a crooked wall. Especially with baseboard, this only accentuates the bow/bend. I think straight trim will make a crooked wall look straighter and improve the look of the out of square corners.

Lastly, wood trim is much easier to cope without damaging the profile as the joints go together.

Matthew, I defer to your experience which is probably more extensive than mine. But my experience has been that clearly defined profiles can be achieved with ease by using built up profiles.
I'm also not talking about a wall that's tremendously convex or concave. However, with crown, even a slight wave in the wall will have large implications on crowns ability to be gapless. With mdf, it's less of an issue than wood.
I also find mdf to cope much easier than pine. It requires very little force, and is extremely easy to file to perfection. My mdf copes are way more 'perfect looking' than my wood ones.

One downside of MDF is it's ability to hold a nail. I find this easily overcome by doubling up on the nails - using 15ga fin nails of course, or using narrow crown staples.

[Matthew Voss]

I also find mdf to cope much easier than pine. It requires very little force, and is extremely easy to file to perfection. My mdf copes are way more 'perfect looking' than my wood ones.

Yes, the cope CUTS are easy, but the profile is more prone to damage as the joints are pushed together, especially if the peices are sprung.

I have no issues with mdf and think it can look very good, it just wouldn't be my first choice and the OP said he wasn't necessarily looking for the cheapest option.

Also, mdf is typically machined with carbide knives (as opposed to steel with wood trim) and just can't produce the same sharp profiles. Of course, if the OP is just using flat stock, this might not be an important consideration.

Again, the OP was asking about running painted base, and that the house would be considered high-end and I find that the thicker, more rigid fj base will not highlight every subtle wave in a wall. I just think this is especially important with base. When I have run mdf base, I shim them straight, away from the wall if necessary.

[Brett Nelson]

I agree in that MDF has treated me well in the past also. This house in particular, any MDF will likely just be S4S flats. I decided to do all the base with S4S and use a base cap and shoe. This makes it really easy to use poplar in the wet locations without it looking different. I can also avoid the problems of MDF moldings; shallow profiles, rounded edges, etc.

[Tom Hargrove]

When we remodeled our home, I used poplar moldings, in part because poplar was competitively priced for what I was needed. I fabricated wainscoating out of MDF for the dining room, which sits on top of the poplar moldings and next to the poplar casing. I worked hard to properly prime and paint, both materials, and you cannot tell the difference between them. It has been four years, and none of the MDF has separated, dented or broken. We have significant temperature and humidity swings in Chicago.

I have also seen several high end homes ($1M before the housing slump) in our area that used MDF trim. They had good paint jobs, and looked great. I would have no qualms about trimming a home in MDF.

[Brett Nelson]

I guess I should probably have clarified a bit. The moldings will be built as follows:

Crown:
3" crown
4" facia
4" soffit
2" bed mould

Door/Window Pillasters:
1x4 S4S flat stock

Door Window Headers:
3/8"x2.5" bullnosed cap
2" crown
5.5" freize
3/8"x1.25" stop mould

Window Stools:
1"x## Bullnosed silll
1/2" cove
3.5" ogee base mould as apron

Base:
Cove/Ogee base cap
1x6 S4S flat stock
1/2x3/4 base shoe

There is also a coffered ceiling, fireplace mantel, and some wainscoat/wallframing that needs to be done. The house is a very classical 2-story colonial. 12" round columns, polished marble floors, etc. I don't want the trim to be an eyesore, but I was hoping that MDF crown and flat stock would be able to go unnoticed as the savings would pretty much pay for the entire wrought iron railing on an open staircase. I budgeted about $5,500 for the trim materials and the bids I'm getting from local mills are right in that range, but I was hoping that strategic use of MDF would allow me to get that down to around $4,000. I did get a bid from my lumberyard for MDF/FJ pine that was in the $4500 range, but I've heard that people have problems with painted FJ trim. ?!?!

[Stephen Edwards]

I'm blessed to live near a sawmill that sells "seconds" or culls at a great price. For the mill to send it on to the kiln that they sell to all the boards have to be a full 1" thick from one end to the other.

Of course, there's always a board or two on each log that doesn't meet that requirement. They bundle these seconds into bundles of 800-1100 BF per bundle. Boards range in length from 8'-16". Species are poplar, walnut, cherry, several kinds of oak, ash, and a few others. At least 2/3 of each bundle will be a minimum of 3/4 thick. Many of the boards will be 7/8" on one end and a full one inch on the other end. Widths vary from 4" to 12".......7"-8" is the average.

I know the guy in charge of the mill and ask him when they'll be sawing a particular species that I want. He tells me and I show up that week to get my bundle or bundles. Some bundles will be mostly poplar. Nice clear boards, too!

I sticker them in the barn and let them dry. I've made the mouldings in my house from cherry that came from these bundles. In fact, I'm still working on it one room at a time. I'm also putting new board and batten siding on the 100 year old barn here, using this sawmill lumber. I'm about 1/3 done with the barn project.

The BEST part about it is that the bundles cost $75 each! I give a friend another $25 to go with me to the mill with his long heavy duty trailer. They load the lumber with a big forklift at the mill. So, I only have to handle it once to get it in the barn and sticker it.

Granted, it's not something useful if you're in a hurry. But, if you live in the boonies like I do and aren't in a hurry, this lumber is a great resource for interior trim and other projects, too. The poplar is perfect for trim in about a year.

At appx. 10 cents per board foot, I love it!

[Brian Peters]

Sounds like a fun project. Problem with FJ pine and this varies vastly amongst suppliers is the cut quality is usually bad. Around here they all have chatter to some degree. I have a feeling its because they push their moulding too fast through the molder, too high a feedrate. Your strategy of MDF crown and flat stock will work well we all do it. I said MDF is good but in moderation. If the customer allows and its paint grade there's no reason why you can't do a two part base and do the flat s4s out of mdf with a poplar cap. Or a built up crown with the flat s4s being MDF as well. It's not cheating and it can save you a lot of money. Some home owners are purists and if they will pay for it sure poplar all the way but if not MDF is a great alternative. Not to mention MDF is pretty stable joints hold up a lot better. I just don't like doing door casings or basemoulding near doorways in MDF as its prone to fast wear.