Older Craftsman Chisels

[Michael O'Sullivan]

What does the "BP" stand for on the older craftsman chisels, i.e. "Craftsman BP U.S.A."

Also, has anyone heard of W. Horne chisels? I received one in a lot I bought on ebay -- it looks very old-fashioned in terms of the workmanship and the mark itself -- or it might just be junky.

[george wilson]

Maybe "Bad Product"? Sorry,couldn't resist it. Years ago Fine Woodworking did an article about chisels. They found the Craftsman to be the worst. They said the Craftsman chisels were made in Holland from 1050 steel. That means 1/2 of 1% carbon. 1050 steel is the very lowest end of steel that will harden. For plain carbon steel,it has very low wear resistance-gets dull more quickly. They couldn't have chosen a cheaper steel.

Not to demean your tool,these are the facts for your consideration only.

[Richard Niemiec]

Depends on the age of the chisel. If you are talking about socket chisels from the 50s or early 60's with the old logo on them, many were made by Greenlee and are excellent. Otherwise, anything much later I would agree with the general view that quality dropped off.

[Jim Koepke]

I have a bunch of the Craftsman Vanadium chisels. They will work like a chisel but they do seem to dull quickly and some of them look like they have bent at the neck.

These are among the chisels used when there is something that may damage a good chisel in the wood. Most of these have come my way in package deals with other chisels.

My feeling is it is good to have a few chisels around for the ugly work or if a neighbor wants to borrow a chisel. If it gets messed up or doesn't come back, it is no big loss.

jim

[Frank Drew]

My very first chisels were a set from Craftsman, bought maybe around 1970-71. I didn't know nuthin' at the time and rather liked the feel and balance but they didn't hold an edge very well. OK for the carpentry I was then doing.

[george wilson]

Glad no one got upset with me for telling the real facts. Since I have hundreds of antique carving tools,I can tell you that not all of them hold an edge well,either. There is still quite a variation in quality.

When I was toolmaker,I actually had to re harden and temper some antique chisels the housewrights were whacking in heavy timber construction. One had an edge that looked like a little fish hook after being used. Clearly not properly hardened,or drawn too soft. On another,a Witherby-one of the best old 19th.C. brands,the steel bit had come loose as it was not properly welded when made.

Not saying all old tools were bad,not by any means,but they were varied,too.

These days,when we know exactly what we are doing with metal alloys,it can only mean that someone's more concerned with money than with the customer getting good value.

BTW,did any of you hear about the trend in tool manufacturers towards making their chisels softer? This due to lawyers encouraging people to sue if they have any tool accidents. I had the end of a 1960's Marples chisel break off. I had bought it new. If it hit me in the eye... I remember in the 60's the years of debate whether lawyers should be allowed to advertise. Do they ever advertise anything but lawsuits? Glad I already bought my old chisels!!

[Michael O'Sullivan]

Glad no one got upset with me for telling the real facts. Since I have hundreds of antique carving tools,I can tell you that not all of them hold an edge well,either. There is still quite a variation in quality.

No offense taken

The C-man is a 1.5"er that I got in a lot of 4 for $10, so I won't be too concerned if it turns out to be cr#p. I had read that the earlier C-men were made by Greenlee and were generally good quality, but I was wondering how one tells when the thing was made. The logo on this is very art deco-ish, but I am not sure how long C-man kept using the same logo. I was wondering if the BP USA legend added some information.

[george wilson]

If they were Greenlee,they'd have to be good,but I don't know when the shift was made. If they don't hold an edge,or bend,it isn't a good sign.

[george wilson]

Jim,your idea of "borrower" tools is a good one !! I remember a tale about a shop teacher. When a student would show up with a completely non specific request to borrow a screwdriver from a teacher,he had one 2' long that he would send back with the student.

[Bill Houghton]

Depends on the age of the chisel. If you are talking about socket chisels from the 50s or early 60's with the old logo on them, many were made by Greenlee and are excellent. Otherwise, anything much later I would agree with the general view that quality dropped off.

My brother gave me a set of Craftsman chisels given to him by our uncle - sockets, wooden handles, pretty things, almost unused, still in the cardboard box. Are you saying these might be Greenlees? How can I tell?

[george wilson]

Wooden handles? That's a good sign. I am not up much on the history of Craftsmen hand tools. Know more about their power tools.

Did you know that the little 6" open side shove-the-wood through by hand thickness planer was made by Seeley (sp?) Thermos Bottle co.? I had one for a few months in the 60's. It worked quite nicely with sharp blades.

[Ian Gillis]

I sorta credit Craftsmen chisels from the early 80's for teaching me how to sharpen. These were the butt chisels with blue and clear plastic handles with steel striking caps.

All you had to do was to show them a piece of wood and the edge would fail! A 250x water stone was my grinder. I had the Eclipse honing jig and a 1000x water stone. I was sharpening so often that putting the chisels in the jig was taking more time than I could stand. I started to hone freehand, and if my bevels were rounded, it didn't matter. I knew I'd get another shot at getting it right in a few minutes

It wasn't too long before I discovered Lee Valley and got some decent chisels and found out that tool steel was meant to be harder than Swiss cheese

[george wilson]

Bill: I have an old Sear's catalog,1935,I think. I'll TRY to remember to look up the Craftsman chisels and see if they look like Greenlees tomorrow, Jog my memory if I don't report back.

[Jim Koepke]

My shiny Craftsman Vanadium chisels have wooden handles. Some still have parts of the Craftsman decal on the handle. Heck, for a while the wooden handles were used on better chisels until my stash got to the point of having more handles than chisels.

jim

[george wilson]

MICHAEL: YOUR ANSWER: In my 1937 Sears catalog,the chisels have wooden handles. They are socket chisels,sold under the name Fulton.

My next oldest catalog is 1955. They are Craftsman with plastic handles.