Color Fill for Wine Bottle????..Help

[Phil Garcia]

I have a large order for some wine bottles to laser engrave with color fill. I need to meet the same quality as in the image. Any recommendations, it almost looks like a epoxy time color fill. At minimum I was considering an oil base paint but someone had recommended a hand rub color for the writing potion of the job but I am more concerned about the larger fairway and green.

[Phil Garcia]

Special Thanks to Gregg Vaughn, Angus Hines, Pete Simmons and everyone else that contributed to the string of post about marketing to the wineries. It gave me some ideas and I went out and started knocking doors and I have a large order for wine glasses and now the Golf Course wine bottles that the winery has to provide to the golf courses in the area. Thanks again to all.

Winery String: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...98516#poststop

[Rodne Gold]

You gonna have problems with that ...beeg problems
The best way to tackle that job is to laser a mask and blast the bottle so you get some depth in the engraving and then color fill using masking tape to mask areas you dont want filled. Its gonna be a painstaking and painful job...personally I wouldn't touch it unless I was getting very high $ for it.

I would actually do it another way , considering I have a digial printer that prints on vinyl and die cuts it , I would print it , then overlaminate it with a soft matte and then die cut a "label" and just apply it.

[Phil Garcia]

Thanks Rodne but the overlay is not an option. They want it to match the bottle in the pic. I know it's going to be a pain but the order is so large that I just don't want to say no. I was planning to reduce the size of the golf course hole since the pic is not the exactly the one they want. The golf course hole for my project is some what smaller, thank goodness. Also, special thanks to you Rodne, your ideas on the winery string give me a big boost.

[Rodne Gold]

That bottle in the pic isnt lasered , its "sand carved" , if you dont have a sandblasting cabinet - you will not get good results trying to laser and fill.
If you are determined to try , then you need to laser it to control the fracturing a laser induces.
Glass is essentailly engraved by a laser when impurities in it expand and that expansion (due to the thermal shock of the lasers heat) fracture the surrounding material. Laser light from your laser actually passes thru glass.
Anyway , the idea is to control the fracturing and thus you can either damp the glass with masking material or laser thry wet tissue etc to try to get a decent even surface for large areas.
Rub n buff or paint will work as colouring agents.
The problem you will have is with dams - the unengraved area that seperates 2 areas of colour so they dont run into each other - your laser will not engrave the glass deep enough for these dams to be effective.
Each of these bottles would take , at an estimate , apart from lasering , a further 4 man hours to complete.
If this is a large order , you will have a big problem delivering more than lets say , 5-7 bottles a day , as a one man show.
As I say , if you arent going to blast these to get a decent surfaced and deep etch , dont touch em.
You can also chemically etch these by using a laser to ablate a mask and then using a glass etching cream or for a deep etch , hydroflouric acid which is VERY VERY nasty stuff. Which ever way you go , the filling of these is going to be painstakingly slow.
What are you charging per bottle - I wouldnt touch this at anything under $60 per one
Sometimes you just have to say no...

[Phil Garcia]

I was thinking about making the dams as large as possible between colors so that it's a little easier to control the color separation. Do think using a mask per color and spraying an enamel gloss paint would work also??

[Pete Simmons]

I have a similar possible large order. They want a small yellow logo on wine glasses.

I have tried many things including some test yellow cermark supplied by them. No luck so far. Some things look ok at first but will not survive one dishwasher cycle.

[Phil Garcia]

A friend has recommended doing it with a air brush, but I don't know about that.

[Joe Hayes]

Phil - take a look at this link. I believe what they produce is close to what you are wanting to do. Maybe it will give you some ideas. On the "About" page there are some videos of the process.



http://www.freshnwdesign.com/gallery-wineries.php

[Phil Garcia]

Thanks Joe, that gave me some great ideas. I believe I will have to airbrush the larger areas, i.e. fairway and green... and the smaller areas with a small paint brush. I might have to have someone sandblast the bottles for me and I will just paint them. Any ideas on what a sandblaster would cost for this type of job??

[Dave Johnson29]

Any ideas on what a sandblaster would cost for this type of job??

My suggestion would be to have someone else do them. Having said that quality control may well be a major issue though. Specially if the bottles are full.

Cheap sandblasters are just that. The important things are the pickup tube design and the gun nozzle (ceramic) design.

You will also need a good air compressor for at least 10cfm at 90+psi. I have a 9cfm and it runs almost constantly with the blast cabinet.

It is messy dusty work. The blaster also needs a dust collector which is like a large vacuum cleaner.

Look for one with a cone-shaped (round or square) bottom with drain door at the pointy end for emptying the media when it is worn out or you need to change grit size. Without it you will be lifting the media out with a cup and then tipping the thing upside down. Hard won experience there.

[Mike Null]

Phil

You might want to consider buying a sand carving outfit. They are nowhere near as expensive as a laser and they are clearly superior for glass, marble, granite and brick.

Note how much prep there is before blasting and after painting. Painting is the easy part.

[Mike Null]

A good sandblasting system will have a pressure pot not a siphon system.

[Bill Cunningham]

Have you priced this to them yet? I'm with Rodney on the 'minimum' price.. These are not just a job, they are individual works of art, that will be VERY time consuming and expensive to produce.. Personally, unless they are willing to pay 'a lot' of money per bottle(as a individual work of art), I would give them another alternative, that will make you some good money, and give them almost exactly the look they have now at a much lower price.. It's called a 'double bump label' and looks like screen printing..
http://www.discountlabels.com/info_uv_doublebump.html

[Mark Plotkin]

Dear Phil,

A job like this will never touch the laser. Watch the video in Joe's post, sandblasting is the way this is done. I have both a laser and sandblast cabinet. Sandblasting has it's own challenges. Here are a few to condsider, you need a big compressor that will run on 220.(2 stage is best) the mask and artwork are done on a photo light type system, then you need to apply the mask, registation can be fun, any wrinkes and off it comes before you even try to blast. In addition the rest of the bottle that does not have the mask on it needs to be taped. Next is the color fill, this job looks like airbrush and hand paint. I guess my point is, this is a very time consuming process with lots of chances for errors and defects. Good luck and let us know how you do!