New DC - Can't Decide

[Paul Fitzgerald]

I hate to start another DC thread... but I'm having a heck of a time deciding between the Penn State DC2000B and the Delta 50-760.

I only have two 110V 15A circuits in my garage. I will put in a new 220V circuit if I end up going with the PSI or a new 110V circuit if I go with the Delta, so power requirements aren't an issue.

I have a Ridgid TS w/2.5" dust port, Ridgid Jointer w/4" dust port, Ridgid Planer w/4" dust port, Delta BS w/4" dust port, and a Woodpeckers Router Table w/2.5" dust port. I also have a Delta 16" DP, a Jet 10x14 Mini Lathe, and a DeWALT 12" CMS.

I don't expect to be able to setup a full network of ductwork. As soon as I can, I'll probably setup two or three machine groups with blast gates so there will be less connecting and disconnecting. But initially, I'll move the DC from machine to machine.

The two DCs are so close in price that I'm not worried about the cost difference. The 50-760 is $375 @ Amazon and the DC2000B is $340 including shipping @ PSI.

The only thing that's keeping me from going with the Delta is the fact that it only has a 5" port, where the PSI has a 6" port. My ignorance in this arena says "6 is bigger than 5, so go with the PSI." But the shop tests and reviews seem to indicate the Delta has better real world specs.

So... how important is the 6" vs 5" port size? If I won't notice a difference, I'm going to go with the Delta.

TIA,

Paul

[Robert Reece]

Paul-

My guess is that both the Delta and PSI machine can not draw enough air to meet the air speed requirements (4000 FPM) in 6" pipe, so you would be looking at 5" anyway. In other words, the 6" on the PSI will likely have to be stepped down at some point, so I think the fitting on the machine is irrelevant.

[Prashun Patel]

I have the 50-760 and love it. All reviews are positive for it. Wood mag had a review a few months ago and it got the highest review.

That being said, the PennSt model you show above has a larger motor and comes with a 1u bag - which was a thing that differentiated the Delta previously.

I suspect y'll be happy with either.

6" fittings ARE more standard than the 5". The Delta comes with a 5" x 4" x 4" wye, so it's not an issue if yr ducting is 4".

Don't forget to budget for quick connects, ducting, and blast gates. That can easily add $50-100 to yr budget.

[Joel Earl]

You'll likely be happy with either.

I still scratch my head when I think of that Wood Mag review, March '08 IIRC?
The PSI got higher grades, read more A ratings than the Delta and the Grizz 1029Z , was referenced at end ( in top 3) but the rag gave the nod to the other 2. That baffles me to this day but WTH - they all very solid.
I went the PSI way. Had an older Delta model and older Grizz model (1029).
Noise. That was the final selling point with me. It is fairly quite for a big DC.
And I believe all can handle 6" - positively know that the PSI does w/o a hiccup.
The PSI has the fairly sharp bend on hose from blower to cannister area - straighten that out by remounting the thing and I'll bet there's another 200-250 cfm hiding there in restrictions. IMO that would really seperate the 3 of them listed in rag.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Joel,

Yep, that review was in Wood Magazine's March 2008 issue. I too was baffled as to why they chose the Delta and Grizzly as their top tools rather than the Delta and PSI.

Robert,

According to Wood Magazine's testing:
1) Both the Delta and the PSI delivered adequate airflow with 4" duct
2) The Delta was tested with 5" duct and delivered adequate airflow
3) The PSI was tested with 6" duct and delivered adequate airflow

---

In my original post, I stated "The only thing that's keeping me from going with the Delta"... Well, I kind of got caught up in that. There are actually several characteristics of each that have me stuck. (Both have 1 micron upper bags though)

The Delta
1) 1.5HP (Con)
2) 5" Inlet (Con)
3) No Blower to Bag Hose (Pro)
4) Uses Plastic Bottom Bags (Pro)

Peak w/4" duct 704 CFM @ 7.25 SP
Peak w/5" duct 844 CFM @ 4.5 SP

---

The PSI
1) 2HP (Pro)
2) 6" Inlet (Pro)
3) Blower to Bag Hose is 5" (Con)
4) Includes 1micron Bottom Bag (Con)

Peak w/4" duct 648 CFM @ 6.2 SP
Peak w/6" duct 822 CFM @ 1.55 SP

---

The PSI has a more powerful motor and a larger inlet, but has a blower-to-bag hose and doesn't use clear plastic bottom bags.

The Delta has a less powerful motor and a smaller inlet, but does without a blower-to-bag hose and does use clear plastic bottom bags. (Yet it's numbers still beat out the PSI unit)

All the CFM and SP stuff goes right over my head... which it partly why I have no idea whether the difference between 5" on the Delta and 6" on the PSI is important or not.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Paul - looks like PSI has it listed now for $279.95 - even better for you

I chose the Delta because of the 1micron bag and the slightly better airflow numbers. I bet you would be happy with either of those units (especially if you straighten out that bend, as the OP mentioned). and the extra $$ could be put towards some blast gates and ducting....

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Paul - looks like PSI has it listed now for $279.95 - even better for you

I chose the Delta because of the 1micron bag and the slightly better airflow numbers. I bet you would be happy with either of those units (especially if you straighten out that bend, as the OP mentioned). and the extra $$ could be put towards some blast gates and ducting....

But it's $60 to ship, which puts the difference in price at only $35.

Are you saying the PSI unit didn't used to come with a 1micron bag?

Paul

[David Christopher]

just to through in the mix. did you consider the Grizzly 1029Z

Motor: 2 HP, 220V, single-phase, 12AMP, 3450 RPM
Standard bag filtration: 2.5 micron
Air suction capacity: 1550 CFM
Static pressure: 11"
6" inlet with removable "Y" fitting with two 4" openings

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

doh! I didn't check shipping.

No, my comment of the 1m bags and airflow was against the other units, not PSI. The PSI unit looked good (and I agree - how the heck did it beat out the Grizzly unit?), and I figured I couldn't go wrong with either. Someone I know has the Delta unit, so that swayed me.

[David Song]

I don't understand.

The PSI states 2HP and sucks MAX1500 CFM and Delta has MAX1200CFM with only 1.5HP. How can Delta have better flow? Doesn't this CFM mean anything?

[Rick Potter]

This may not be relevant to these two DC's, but I used to have both a Penn State 1.5HP, and a Delta 1.5HP unit in my old shop. This was maybe 6 years ago. DC threads were very common then too, and I decided to do a side by side comparison. I can't remember all the details, but I came up with, I think, 16 points of comparison.

The Delta had a 7" inlet, PSI 6", and while having no way to test, the Delta seemed to move more air at my blast gates. Briefly, some of the points were:

Delta unit weighed more.
The stand on the Delta was heavier guage.
The wheels were larger on the Delta.
The bracket holding the bags was heavier on the Delta.
The Delta drew more amps.
The Delta cord had thicker wire.

The list went on, but this is all I remember for sure, except that when it was time to upgrade one unit, the Delta stayed, the PSI was sold. My son in law lives in the old house now, and he is still using it. I offered him my 3HP Powermatic to replace it and he told me he is happy with the Delta, which serves four blast gates, longest run being about 20' altogether.

Rick Potter

[Paul Fitzgerald]

just to through in the mix. did you consider the Grizzly 1029Z

Motor: 2 HP, 220V, single-phase, 12AMP, 3450 RPM
Standard bag filtration: 2.5 micron
Air suction capacity: 1550 CFM
Static pressure: 11"
6" inlet with removable "Y" fitting with two 4" openings

Yes, I had considered it... the specs and price are similar... but it has a 2.5micron upper bag. That's why I took it off my short list.

Hmm. I wonder how much a 1micron bag would cost me. Doh! Thanks alot David Hehehe.

Paul

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

I don't understand.

The PSI states 2HP and sucks MAX1500 CFM and Delta has MAX1200CFM with only 1.5HP. How can Delta have better flow? Doesn't this CFM mean anything?

My guess is that 'rating' is for just the blower. when you add in the other parts, you start to see a performance impact. The Delta has the impeller connected directly to the collection chamber, but the PSI is connected via a 5' flex hose that has a pretty sharp bend in it.

The PSI was better rated for larger ducts even with the 'conneciton hose'....I wonder how much better it would get if the impeller assembly was connected directly to the collection chamber - it would mean building a custom stand for it, but still....

[Joel Earl]

I'm unsure which PSI unit that was Rick but this one is a bonafide 2hp and way different but any other PSI unit I had ever been around. The motors a big honker - bigger than my old Grizz 1029 (non-Z) and old Delta (that was 1.5hp).

I don't think he'll go wrong with any but for just out of the box use IMHO this PSI is a hot ticket.

Mods - I anticipate taking advantage someday, if needed, of the full power by mounting the DC up to either wall or ceiling, running a straight pipe to the thing and eliminating that hose and bend. Maybe having a larger bag (AFF) or even a cartridge?(Wynn) on top, a 30 gal trash can under it with a sleeve to it sewn from the 1 mic bag there now. No more bags to toss out - that'd be nice to just empty the can in the compost or trashcan.
If I really wanted to super trick it out I'd even change that outlet to the body to 6".....
I digress - this modifying would be somewhat over the top. Cheap - yes it would be Some work - yes again. Many over at Woodnet have done it and swear by the mods. I have to be honest to myself right now and say I just do not need any more than it is doing for me right now. It's just a nice DC as it is.

Just my .02 and any of the 3 I'd take. I just wouldn't trade the one I have either so .... I kinda made a choice I suppose that for me was right.

[Joel Earl]

My guess is that 'rating' is for just the blower. when you add in the other parts, you start to see a performance impact. The Delta has the impeller connected directly to the collection chamber, but the PSI is connected via a 5' flex hose that has a pretty sharp bend in it.

The PSI was better rated for larger ducts even with the 'conneciton hose'....I wonder how much better it would get if the impeller assembly was connected directly to the collection chamber - it would mean building a custom stand for it, but still....

John - think someone at Woodnet did some testing on this and posted numbers. There was a respectible change when done. Others just straightened out that bend and that was a sizeable increase too. This particular DC seems to have undergone quite a few serious mods to supercharge it. Needed - I really dunno if that was case or the "cool can do" thing set in. It has a serious following anyway