Cyclone DC

[Marcel LeBlanc]

Hi everyone, I have a stupid question about my DC, I have been using it for more than two years, I made it myself using Bill's plan and working very well, it was in my basement and the Amps it was drawing was about 12 and the chip bin was a box made of plywood.

This summer I built my woodshop, I have finished moving all my tools in the new shop and installing them up. As it is I'm in the process of installing the DC and making a few changes to it. Instead of the wood box for the chips, it is more convenient for me to use those big plastics bags, the problem is that the DC wants to suck up the bag in the cone; I have seen Cyclone using those plastics bag any special way to install them.

Second my Amps has drop to 9, can anyone see the reason for this, I am using the same pipes ( 6 inches PVC )and I have also clean the filters, hardly any dust in them.
Thank you all

[Tom Veatch]

...Instead of the wood box for the chips, it is more convenient for me to use those big plastics bags, the problem is that the DC wants to suck up the bag in the cone; I have seen Cyclone using those plastics bag any special way to install them.

The bag will either have to be supported against the suction by some rigid framework inside the bag or be isolated from the suction by some sealed container outside the bag.

The pressure inside the cyclone is less than atmospheric pressure. The bag itself offers no resistance to that pressure differential. A rigid internal framework can provide support to prevent the bag collapsing. But that can present problems emptying the bag. Alternately, enclosing the bag in a sealed container will prevent atmospheric pressure from collapsing the bag. I have the bag for my Pentz cyclone inside a 55 gal drum with a sealed lid and it works well. But, if there is any leakage around the lid, the bag gets pulled up into the cyclone body.

Second my Amps has drop to 9, can anyone see the reason for this, I am using the same pipes ( 6 inches PVC )and I have also clean the filters, hardly any dust in them.

You didn't say what the amperage rating is for the motor, but 9 amps may be very close to the zero load current. IIRC, the zero load current for my 5HP Leeson motor is 8-9 amps. Sounds like you may not be getting much, if any, airflow at all.

If opening all the blastgates doesn't significantly change the amperage draw, check it with the cyclone completely disconnected from the ductwork and the filters. If you're not drawing something like 70% or more of the motor's full load amperage, then something in the cyclone itself is blocking the flow. If the cyclone is OK, reconnect the filters and try again. If amperage draw is good, the filters are OK and the problem is in the ducts. Look for anything different between the old and new duct arrangements. Longer runs, more bends, tighter bends, blocked or partially blocked pipes, etc., can increase the flow resistance on the input side of the cyclone, reduce airflow, reduce the workload on the motor and reduce the current draw of the motor. All the blastgates being closed can do the same thing.

[Phil Thien]

The cyclones you've seen with just a bag on the bottom are in a push configuration. So instead of a blower SUCKING air through the cyclone, a blower is PUSHING air through the cyclone.

As states above, if you want to use bags, you have to put them in a container and have an expanding insert that holds the bag against the sides of that container. Some people use rolled-up laminate. Before removing the bag, you slide the laminate out.

The amps drop would indicate that either the airflow is restricted somewhere (all the blast gates closed) or some other restriction was introduced.

[Sonny Edmonds]

First, remove the plastic blocking the inlet of the fan.
Second, use a steel open top type drum (55 gallon) with the band for your collection drum.

Plastic bags are for the kitchen trash can.

[Rod Sheridan]

Plastic bags are for the kitchen trash can.

Or for my Oneida cyclone.

I use plastic drum liners inside the cardboard drum, makes disposal neat and clean.

With a bare drum you then have to pour or scoop the dust out, and the entire idea of having a collector is so that you don't have to breathe the dust, which is what happens when you start pouring or scooping it.

Regards, Rod.

[Marcel LeBlanc]

Hi, first I would like to thank everyone for the quick replies, to begin, on the label of the motor, its indicated 13Amps. I also found the reason for the drop on the Amps, in the inlet there was a big piece of pink insulation blocking it almost completely, please don't ask how it came in there, after removing it the Amps return to what it seems normal at least to me.
For the chip bin, I will go with the drum and the plastic bag for the sake of cleaning and disposal. Anything that I should be aware of with this combination.
Thank you

[Phil Thien]

Anything that I should be aware of with this combination.
Thank you

Yes, if you fill it too full your wife may have some difficulty emptying it.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Or for my Oneida cyclone.

I use plastic drum liners inside the cardboard drum, makes disposal neat and clean.

With a bare drum you then have to pour or scoop the dust out, and the entire idea of having a collector is so that you don't have to breathe the dust, which is what happens when you start pouring or scooping it.

Regards, Rod.

Until it rips removing it.
Been there, done that, Rodney....
I've also had a plastic bag be drawn up into my chamber.
So I gave my best answer, based on my extensive experiences with building dust collection systems.
I don't have to clean out my system very often. But when I do, it is a long drawn out affair. And I get a big kick out of the trash truck drivers surprise.
Cyclonic Filtering
(As with all of my web pages, clicking on a thumbnail makes a bigger picture appear.)

You have a nice day.
Oh, and I wasn't too far off. He had insulation stuck on his inlet.

[glenn bradley]

Or for my Oneida cyclone.

I use plastic drum liners inside the cardboard drum, makes disposal neat and clean.

With a bare drum you then have to pour or scoop the dust out, and the entire idea of having a collector is so that you don't have to breathe the dust, which is what happens when you start pouring or scooping it.

Regards, Rod.

I just wheel the can to the trash and pour it in but I could sure do without breathing the fallout like you describe. What keeps your liners from being sucked up into the cone?

[Tom Veatch]

...
For the chip bin, I will go with the drum and the plastic bag for the sake of cleaning and disposal. Anything that I should be aware of with this combination.
Thank you

Been doing it that way since day one without any problems. You should be aware that, depending on the size, a bag full of chips can be heavy and difficult to remove from the drum. Trying to lift it out the top is, for me, a guarantee that the bag will tear. But, tilting the drum and laying it on its side allows the bag to slide out very easily.

Also be aware that the drum must have an airtight seal. Any leakage into the drum, especially when the bag is empty will cause the bag to be pulled up into the cyclone body. My experience with a 55 gallon steel drum shows that a well fitting top with closed cell weatherstripping in the groove that seats on the lip of the drum is sufficient to seal the drum. The top simply sits on the drum and when the cyclone is turned on, the pressure differential is more than enough to pull it down against the drum and seal against leakage. No clamp ring or holddown clamps needed. With the cyclone off, it's very quick and easy to lift the top and check the fill state of the drum. With the cycone running, you're not going to lift the top. It pulls down hard.

Assuming a drum diameter of about 26" (500 square inches), every inch of pressure drop (inches of water) in your ducting will result in about 20 pounds pressing down on the top of the drum. So an 8" pressure drop is the equivalent of about 160# sitting on top of the drum. Keep that in mind when you're deciding what type of drum to use. A plastic garbage bin will likely collapse.

[Tom Veatch]

.... What keeps your liners from being sucked up into the cone?

An airtight seal on the drum. If you prevent air from leaking into the drum around the outside of the liner, the liner will stay in place. Otherwise, that airflow will carry the liner up into the cone.

Alternately, a rigid support inside the liner will prevent the liner from being blown into the cone.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

The Onieda bagging system has a small vacumn line installed down to the bottom of the barrel. The small vacumn holds the bag to the bottom of the barrel until there is enough material to keep it there...IIRC

[Steve Rozmiarek]

The Onieda bagging system has a small vacumn line installed down to the bottom of the barrel. The small vacumn holds the bag to the bottom of the barrel until there is enough material to keep it there...IIRC

Yep, and it does not take much vacuum at all to hold the bag down, as long as the drum is airtight around the bag. It works quite well. Something that I'm sure you could build easily. My pump just wires into the main switch, so it runs when the cyclone is running.