Which tool manufactuers have the best reputations?

[jeff begin]

I'm a beginner who is planning on building a shop in Spring. I've done a lot of reading on the various tools and the companies than make them. Here is an overview on what I think I've learned. Are these perceptions accurate?

Delta - The gold standard when it comes to stationary tools. A very old and respected company with a good reputation. Though has quality started to suffer in recent years? They're now selling stuff at the borg and have had to contend with stiffer competition from importers.

Jet - Originally started to make Chinese knockoffs of Delta gear. The company was "rebooted" a few years back and began to take a more serious interest in quality control. How successful has this turn around been?

Grizzly - Perceived as meaning middle-of-the-road in terms of quality and price. Their tools are considered a good value and have a rep for excellent customer service (especially since they sell direct.)

Steel City Toolworks - A relative new comer to the game, I can't find much info on their reputation. Though they seem to be well-received and might be a slight step up from Grizzly in terms of value?

Powermatic - Like Delta, has been around a while. Seems to be the most well-respected (in terms of quality) of the bunch.

Mini Max, Hammer, etc - European companies that make the Festool equivlant of stationary machines. Very pricey with reputations to match. Should the hobbyist even consider these machines?

[Larry Edgerton]

It really depends on which tool the poster owns, then that is the best in most cases.

If I was to start over again I would like to think I would be smart enough to buy one of the euro combination machines, but I am probably not......

[Ben West]

Jeff, I'm glad you've asked such an easy, non-controversial question!

As I'm sure the responses to this question will illustrate, this is a tough, tough question to answer. Maybe the biggest reason for this difficulty is that most of these manufacturers make a range of tools in both quality and price. Grizzly, for example, makes tools at both ends of the quality/cost spectrum. While it's true they are probably regarded overall as "middle-of-the-road" in terms of price, they actually make some very cheap machines and some fairly expensive ones. The G0452 is one of the cheapest 6" jointers you'll find, while the G9860ZX probably rivals most any 12" jointer on the market in price and quality. Many of the other manufacturers likewise offer entry-level and industrial-level machines.

It's never easy making big purchasing decisions. When I do, I try to research the specific models I'm considering, then make my decision based on application, quality, price, and customer service. That's led me to have a whole variety of stuff in my shop, including Grizzly, Powermatic, Festool, Delta, and others. So far, I've had good luck with everthing I've purchased.

Good luck!

[jeff begin]

Yeah, that was another question I was going to tack onto that post: Does model matter more than brand name? You seem to have answered that for me. :-)

When I bought my house, it was a foreclosure that didn't come with any appliances. Rather than buying all GE, Kenmore, etc. so things would match, I researched each appliance on Consumer Reports and bought the one they considered the best value. They scientifically test each product, so I felt that I could rely on them to do my thinking for me.

However, a dishwasher is a dishwasher. And I've had the benefit of using various dishwashers for many years. When looking at jointers, not only do I have to choose between manufacturers, I have to decide: new or used? 6" or 8"? Jointer/planer combo? Helical knives or not? Etc...

I was hoping to pare down some of the choices by eliminating manufactuers before I even looked at their machines. But I guess that's not the possible... ugh... I hate having to make the decision how to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on something I barely know how to use and can't get an objecive opinion about.

[John Keeton]

....I hate having to make the decision how to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on something I barely know how to use and can't get an objecive opinion about.

Jeff, each and every one of us has been in that situation. The opinions you get in response will be objective, i.e., based on empirical data - they will just be based on each responder's personal use, need, and experience.

Kind of like Larry said, whatever the poster has. That's because all of use have done that research, but based usually on $$ available, intended use, level of expectation, etc.

So, that is where I would start - lay out your needs first. Then, perhaps you can better assess what is out there - and, we may be able to respond with more "objective" thoughts based on your needs. I think your generalized assessments are relatively accurate, but again, depends on the model, need, etc.

And, don't buy them all at once! Do the research and buy a tool, set it up, play with it, and use that experience to go on to the next one.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Jeff,
Wow! For a newcomer, you sure did your homework. I generally agree with your assessments.

However, I recommend that each tool you buy be based on the tool itself rather than brand. Mostly because all the brands you name are decent. Therefore, I don't recommend that you be 'brand loyal', but rather choose a machine based upon features and price.

I believe we are in the glory days of home woodworking. I envy your research. I also am jealous of all the great choices you have today.

The only advice I can give is that if it hurts a little to buy better equipment, that's OK, as long as you can responsibly afford it. Buying machinery twice is what I and many other folks have done. That's OK too, but a bit of a hassle, and also some interim discouragement while developing your hobby. What's the saying? Buy once, cry once. However, if you need to do it slowly or start out with lesser equipment, that's OK too.

Enjoy your new hobby!

-Jeff

[Roy Fleming]

Like the others, I think you buy the machine that best fits your situation for the use of the machineand $ available. For example, I have a General 350 table saw, a grizzly 8" jointer, Delta 15 & 12 " planners, Belt/disk sander, Original Dewalt MBF radial arm saw, Delta 65 year old shaper, Craftsman drill press, etc, etc. Sometimes you purchase a machine that is such a good deal you can't pass it up especially if it is on your want/need list. Be patient and depending on $ available, you can fine some great buys on used tools. The only "new" tools I own are my jointer and drill press.

[scott spencer]

Minimax, General, and Powermatic would top my list of quality and CS. AFAIK General is still a family owned business, still made in Drummondville, Canada, and they still forge their own iron. Dunno much 'bout Hammer, Felder, Laguna, etc. Delta has some nice machines but I'm not sure they're what they once were. Jet, Steel City, GI, Grizzly are all pretty close IMO...good bang for the buck for the serious hobbyist and light industrialist. I tend to buy the better value, whatever it may me at the time.

[glenn bradley]

If you buy by brand you will be happy with some tools and unhappy with others. You will find good and bad posted throughout many forums on each brand (yes, some folks even have issues with their Euro machines). I can only recommend that you shop by tool and not by paint job.

[Bob Slater]

Of all those listed, Delta reminds me of a company that once made great stuff and is now just a name. Maybe their 1.5 hp DC and some other items are still pretty good. Singer used to make sewing machines as I recall.

[Peter Quadarella]

Here is the ordering of the companies you listed :
Euro companies
Powermatic
Steel City
Jet
Grizzly
Delta

This is for new purchases only. I wonder which item I will get flamed the most for hehehe.

Disclaimer: of the above, I only own Steel City and Grizzly machines.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Jeff, something you may find interesting, is to look at the next step more expensive machine then you think you really need, and see if the differences are actually something that would be of value to you. If so, and it makes economic sense, you certainly would be happier with spending a bit more for better features. Cost is more features, so unless you have a finite price range, don't write off the Euro machines, or anything else. Ironically, some of the Euro iron is actually cheaper for better quality then the usual suspects. Have fun!

[Rick Fisher]

The Euro machines are fantastic. No question.

Grizzly is a great company. They sell really cheap stuff but they also sell product which is top notch. The price is the easiest way to tell.

Delta.. I think its pretty much over. Old stuff is great, new stuff.. not for me. Its Black and Decker now..

Powermatic and Jet both have really good customer service.

If I where you, I would analyze each tool and base the purchase on Customer service.

[Karl Brogger]

Delta - OK equipment. Not really industrial quality, but pretty decent. The old stuff that is. I wouldn't buy anything made in the last decade, perhaps longer. Uni-fence is a cruel, cruel joke.

Jet - I believe Jet is the cheap line from Powermatic. Haven't used any of it. What I've seen looks to be decently made. Some of it just looks like different paint, but I'm sure they get cheaper parts, electrics, bearings, etc....

Grizzly - I know this is blasphemy around here, but I've never used a single Grizzly tool that was worth anything. But, I haven't used anything newer. What I have been exposed to was garbage. Many on here think its good stuff and they've changed in quality over the years.

Steel City Toolworks - No clue, never seen in person or used this brand.

Powermatic - Decent quality. Hold up well in light industrial applications. I'd stay away from newer stuff as well. I've got a shop full of Powermatic equipment that I'm not overly thrilled with.

Mini Max, Hammer, etc - Some of the European equipment is awesome, most of it is not.

Northfield- I've used alot of their stuff, never had one complaint, never heard of anyone with a complaint. Everything is cast iron. Expensive as hell though.

Most of it comes down to what you want to spend. I've used some really expensive, and really unimpressive European stuff, but for the most part you get what you pay for. I look for more used equipment then new now days. Older Powermatics Model 66 tables saws are supposed to be in abundance used, but I haven't actually noticed that. I think that was a rumor started by someone at Sawstop. Old Rockwell/Delta stuff is really good. Most of my shop is occupied by Powermatic and Delta. The Delta stuff is mostly tools that I don't use very often, lathe, bandsaw, and an old 2hp Rockwell shaper for cutting the notch in drawers for tandem slides. I've got a Delta tablesaw for dado-ing, but there isn't many options for a right tilt saw that I was interested in. Northfield is I think the absolute best equipment made, but even doing this for a living I can't justify the cost.

[Joe Jensen]

Jeff, here are some things to consider
1) How sure are you about the hobby? If you have some experience and you are hooked, then the money you spend will likely go to good use.
2) Do you have to buy new. Some find a lot of comfort in buying new. A knowledgeable dealer with a good service guy would be great, (but hard to find in my experience) New gets you shiny paint, by also likey gets you some challenges in setting up and dialing the tools in.
3) If you don't have to buy new, buying newer used is a way to easily save 30-50%. If you are patient and willing to chase classified ads and craig's list you will likely find almost new versions of the same tools would want.
4) Are you mechanically inclined? I am. I have moved from new tools on your list to older industrial machines which are another big leap up. But, you have to enjoy rebuilding them. I have put new bearings in all, rewired, and fully disassembled and painted them.
5) How much space do you have?
6) What do you want to build? Furniture will require different tools than if you want to pursure lathe work.

I started in my dad's basement shop with very old sears tools (1940s). I was pretty avid in that shop through college. Once I graduated I bought an old Unisaw, and an old jonter. I made a lot of furniture for our first house with those two large tools. As I had more money I added. When I finished my MBA I treated myself to a large upgrade and got a shop full of new Powermatic machines (1990).

If you buy used, you will likely recoup all that you spend if you either upgrade later, or stop the hobby. If you buy new, you will lose 30-50% of your investment if you sell piece by piece or 50-70% if you sell all as a lot.