Fire Protection - Sprinkler System for shop

[Kerry Medeiros]

Does anyone here have a piped in sprinkler system in their shop? If so, how do you have it set up?

I have been debating putting one in for the past while. I have a 1-1/4" water line into my shop that has good pressure (60psi) and ample flow. My shop is heated in the winter with a wood burning furnace. I normally try to keep the shop at about 5C (40F) while I'm not in there, but there are times when the shop does approach the freezing point. This means on days like today when the outside temp is -25C (-13F) I make a fire in the shop before I leave to go to work in the morning and usually once in the evening.

I am fire chief for a large industrial facility and deputy fire chief for our community so I am aware of the hazards of burning wood. Yes, I do take all necessary precautions in this regard. But having been involved in my fair share of industrial fire's (and the odd house fire) where sprinkler systems have been in use I can say that they do help immensely.

Just curious what other people are doing.

Kerry

[Ed Hazel]

About a month ago I realized I did not even have a fire extinguisher in my shop it is detached and about 100 ft from my garage which where I would have had to run to get an extinguisher I promptly went and bought one.
I have a gas furnace but it dose have an expose flame, I am considering replacing it with an enclosed unit that utilizes outside air for combustion.

In your case I would think a sprinkler system would be a good idea especially since you have the water supply handy.
Can you fill the lines with antifreeze in the area that might freeze, you are not always going to be their to keep it above 32 hopefully the AF would never leave the pipes I think RV antifreeze is not harmful to the environment if it did get out.

[Kerry Medeiros]

Ed,

What I had in mind was installing a check valve with RV antifreeze above it in the actual sprinkler system.

[Lee Schierer]

Many industrial systems have no water in them at all, just air pressure. When a head trips it releases the air, which opens a valve and the water flows to the open heads. The air release also triggers the alarm. We have this type of system on an outdoor tank where I work and we have several months of temperatures below freezing.

Just remember that water and wood working equipment don't play well together. If you whack a head with a long board you are going to get wet pretty fast.

[Sam Layton]

Hi Kerry,

I have fire sprinklers in my shop. When I built the shop the city required the fire sprinklers. My pressure is about 110 psi and they used 1" plastic pipe. It also has what they call an inspector valve at the end of the system so you can flush out the system. About every 6 mo I flush the system in the shop, and my house as well.

I live in So Calif so I do not need heat. I don't know about the freezing. If you do install fire sprinklers make sure you install the concealed heads that are flat to the ceiling. When they installed my sprinklers they wanted to install sprinklers that were exposed about 2". I can just see me swinging a board, hitting the sprinkler and there goes the flood... I insisted they install the concealed heads.

In Calif you need to be licensed to install and even buy the equipment
Sam

[Kerry Medeiros]

Lee,

I am all to familiar with dry systems. We have massive systems where I work that are dry. And from time to time we have had accidents where heads have been broken off and the system floods. Not too bad when its summer, but the last two times it happened it was -35C. Any branch lines that did not have water flow froze solid and it meant taking down about 1000' of 1" and 4" pipe and thawing it. Thank God it was not all threaded pipe, hooray for victaulic fiittings.

The problem with dry systems for a residential service is finding a dry valve for the smaller piping in residential applications. All dry valves I have seen are for 4" and larger supplies.

[Brian Backner]

Water and cast iron tools don't mix. In the event of an actual fire the cleanup inherent to removing all the resulting rust would be incredible - let alone needing to replace motors, controls and other electrical equipment. If I were to smash a head with a long board, setting off a deluge by accident I would be very unhappy ....

At the moment I do not have a fire suppression system, but have been looking into installing one. When I started researching the options, I was initially thinking of going with Halon. Not. As an ozone depleting gas, Halon was banned several years ago.

The best option I've seen is a system called Inergen. Inergen is a mixture of nitrogen, argon and carbon dioxide - all available at you local welding supply company. The strategy is to lower the oxygen content sufficiently to prevent and/or stop combustion, but not so low that anyone in the room would be asphyxiated.

From what I've read, the piping and what not is basically the same except for the special gas dispersal heads and tank hookups that are required. I've never priced out a system, but my sense is that if would only add 15-20% to the cost of a typical water system.

One of the largest suppliers/installers is the Reliable Fire Equipment Co outside Chicago.

http://www.reliablefire.com/inergenfolder/inergen.html

I'm sure you could find similar suppliers near any major city.

Usual disclaimers apply - no affiliation, etc.

Brian

[Matt Barber]

Hi Kerry,

I might be able to give you some help in this area. I've been working as a Journeyman sprinklerfitter, installing systems for the past 5 years so you could say its my kind of work.

Installing a system in your shop probably isn't to hard except for the fact that it might freeze. When I install systems in residential buildings we use a pipe call "Blazemaster" it's CPVC piping and most pumping wholesalers should carry it, along with all the fittings. The standard plumbing pipe works but most sprinkler systems are minimum 1" and thats fairly big for your standard ipex pipe. Also the sprinkler head adapters are designed for the CPVC pipe.

Most residential sprinkler heads spray, depending on pressure and the size of your pipe, either 16'x16' or 18'x'18'. You basically need a valve, gauge and a test connection valve so you can drain the system. I would probably go with a 16'x16' spacing if you have about 60psi and depending on the size of your shop probably run 2, 1" lines down the length of your shop, picking up heads every 16 feet or less with the last head 8' or less off the wall.

Now because you don't have a heated shop all year long you can use an antifreeze mix, but then it becomes a little more pricey because you have to have backflow preventer so that the antifreeze doesn't flow back into the city water supply. Depending on your municapality, you will need one. In sprinkler systems it's not required by code, but most municapalitys require them.

A dry system is totally out of the question for you because I'm sure you don't want to spend $10,000 on your sprinkler system. All dry systems have to be steel threaded or grooved pipe and the dry valve alone depending on size is 2000 - 5000 dollars.

I also noticed you said you've had problem with your dry system at work. Most sprinkler companys offer a service where they will winterize your sprinkler system. On old system this is especially important as you've found out. They come in a drain off all the water that has collected due to condensation and make sure that you don't have water in your dry system. It ends up costing a lots less than if your pipe freeze :P

If you have any other questions just let me know

Matt

[Scott T Smith]

There is a type of system called a "Dry pre-action" system. It is a dry type system with air pressure in the pipes, and it's also hooked into a heat/smoke detection system.

In order for the pipes to be filled with water, you have to experience BOTH a pressure loss as well as have a smoke/heat detector trigger. This helps prevent drenching expensive equipment in case one of the sprinkler heads accidentally gets knocked off. It also prevents the problems associated with freezing weather.

Personally I'm going to be looking into a gas type system for my new shop. I lost my old shop to a fire last year and most of the equipment was destroyed by the water from the fire department, not the fire.

[Sonny Edmonds]

I have fire extinguishers and good insurance.
Does that count?

[Robert Maloney]

I am a journeyman sprinklerfitter for 15 yrs. One thing you need to remember is that sprinkler systems are designed to give you a way out, not save your equipment. The water damage from a sprinkler system is just as damaging as the water from fire hose, but 98% of the time systems do put out the fire. Check with your local jurisdiction as there are many different local codes. Plastic pipe is great, but cant be exposed, gas systems like intergen and FM2000 are good but the rooms have to be air tight. In my opinion the best and safest system for a shop is a Preaction System. A head can be knocked out and it wont flood your shop. I,ve actually installed them in the NY Stock Exchange to protect the computers. As for water requirements you need to have an engineer design your system and do a hydraulic calculations to see if your psi and gpms are sufficient, also if you are installing more than 10 heads the supply Cannot be tied in with your domestic water without installing a backflow detector. It is a very good idea to install one in your shop for life safety reasons and it will also lower your insurance premiums. Hope this helps, any questions just ask

[Sonny Edmonds]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah....
Look, if I'm to dumb or feeble to get my dumb butt out of my 20' X 20' shop (which has a 5# halon extinguisher at two exits), maybe it's time for me to go???
I live in a house, not some over engineered and over stuffed commercial building.
And if you want to argue, Just how much real good did the systems do for the poor souls in the World Trade Center?
I understand the scare tactics. But there is no way you will justify sprinkler systems to me in my little shop.

[Greg Cuetara]

A dry system is totally out of the question for you because I'm sure you don't want to spend $10,000 on your sprinkler system. All dry systems have to be steel threaded or grooved pipe and the dry valve alone depending on size is 2000 - 5000 dollars.

When I was looking at building a house I was quoted between 15k and 25k for a 1,500 ft2 house. I am sure that is probably a small size compared to some of the shops you guys have but sprinkler systems are expensive no matter which way you go.

I also think it is correct to say that if I had a fire the least of my concerns would be saving all my tools, I want to make sure my family gets out safe. Fire and/or the water from the firemen would do much more damage to my tools and house than a sprinkler system.

Has anyone had any luck with the uponor system. I think they tie the domestic cold water and sprinkler heads into the same system but there is always the problem of knocking off a head.

Greg

[Kurt Strandberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah....
Look, if I'm to dumb or feeble to get my dumb butt out of my 20' X 20' shop (which has a 5# halon extinguisher at two exits), maybe it's time for me to go???
I live in a house, not some over engineered and over stuffed commercial building.
And if you want to argue, Just how much real good did the systems do for the poor souls in the World Trade Center?
I understand the scare tactics. But there is no way you will justify sprinkler systems to me in my little shop.

A sprinkler system is designed for a certain amount of heads to contain the fire, not have the main supply line ripped by a jet going through the pipes or jet fuel dumped in the building when the jet crashed

There has never been a multiple fatality in a fully sprinkled building

You are right you don't need a sprinkler system in a 20X20 shop where you work alone, but I think all public buildings should.

Yes, I am a journeyman sprinklerfitter for 12 years and 20 years on a fire department, I have seen sprinklers save many buildings

That night club fire in Rhode Island, if I remember correct killed a 100 or so people, a week or 2 later there was the same type of fire in Minneapolis, from the wall covering started by the bands pyrotechnics, and fire sprinklers put out the fire and other than here in Minnesota nobody heard about it on the news.

[Tom Hargrove]

Fire extinguishers work great if: 1) they are the right kind (Halon is only partially effective on some types of combustibles, like sawdust and piles of wood); 2) if they are big enough, (they are generally effective only when the fire is small); and 3) someone is present when the fire starts. If no one is present to use an extinguisher, they don't work well. At the same time, I think its a good idea to have fire extinguishers around. I have several in my home and garage, even though I'm not home all of the time

You don't have to have a sprinkler system, just like you don't have to have insurance on your home (unless the mortgage company demands that you do). But I think it is a good idea to insure my home and shop whether or not someone else required me to do it. In the same vein, you don't have to use blade guards, push sticks or dust collection systems. Most of us reading this live in countries where such decisions are up to the individual.

If I ever have a freestanding shop, it will have a sprinkler system in it. It is true that a sprinkler system usually doesn't fully extinguish the fire, but sprinklers usually keep it from spreading beyond the point of origin. When the fire department arrives, they put out the fire. I was an insurance adjuster for almost 15 years, and during that time I walked through hundreds of burned buildings.

If you put the terms "meridian plaza" and "fire" in a search engine, it will return information on a spectacular fire that I worked on as an adjuster. Many experts say the fire was caused by rags soaked with finishing oil that ignited after everyone went home for the day. The fire burned through areas that were not protected by sprinklers. The fire was extinguished when it spread to an area that had working sprinklers in it.

I would rather have damage from a small fire and sprinkler discharge than damage from a large fire. I would rather replace some of my tools and some drywall that all of my tools and the entire building.