Need Tips For Flattening a #7

[James White]

HI,

I am trying to flatten a #7 Stanley. I put marks across the entire sole and work it on some paper glued to my power jointer. It consistently shows the heal and toe to be low. In other words the maker stays on these two areas. However If I put a strait edge on it, it shows just the opposite to be true. There is a gap in the center of the sole. It seems that the sole is flexing in the center and therefore the center gets the work from the paper leaving the toe and heal low. The end result is if I joint the edge of a board it come out with an ark (low at the ends and high in the middle).

Can anyone make some suggestions on how to get this flat. I thought about putting pressure on the toe and heal during the flattening. But I do not want to ruin the plane. So I will wait for some advise. Where should I hold the plane during the flattening process?

James

[Alex Shanku]

Does it not flatten panels?

My #7 is not "flat" and it does its job perfectly.

When I got it, I ran it over some 220g, 400g, 600g, 1000g, waxed it and called it good. Total time = 10 minutes.

[David Keller NC]

"Can anyone make some suggestions on how to get this flat. I thought about putting pressure on the toe and heal during the flattening. But I do not want to ruin the plane. So I will wait for some advise. Where should I hold the plane during the flattening process?"

James - there's a number of possibilities for your observations. Among them:

1. The jointer table is not flat (more common than you might think) - check it against the same straightedge you're using against the plane sole.

2. The lever cap is too tight against the frog - that will typically warp the plane's sole convex, and when you flatten it, most of the wear will be around the throat/mouth of the plane. Obviously, you must do your checking with the straightedge without loosening or otherwise moving the lever cap.

3. You're putting too much pressure on the center of the plane. Remember that a long metal plane will flex to some degree, and the marker check you're referring to will reveal discrepancies measured in the thousandths, if not the tens of thousandths, of an inch. One thought is that you want to flatten it as you would use it, which would typically be gripping the rear tote and the front knob. The only caution here is that you've got to be careful to distribute the pressure evenly between the two.

Hopefully this is obvious, but the blade must be in the plane, cinched down by the lever cap, and moved a 1/16" or so back from the mouth, both when you're flattening it and when you're checking it with the straightedge.

Finally, realize that a straightedge to measure such things needs to be a precision tool; the aluminum yardsticks sold at Home Depot won't cut it.

[Jim Koepke]

HI,

I am trying to flatten a #7 Stanley. I put marks across the entire sole and work it on some paper glued to my power jointer. It consistently shows the heal and toe to be low. In other words the maker stays on these two areas. However If I put a strait edge on it, it shows just the opposite to be true. There is a gap in the center of the sole. It seems that the sole is flexing in the center and therefore the center gets the work from the paper leaving the toe and heal low. The end result is if I joint the edge of a board it come out with an ark (low at the ends and high in the middle).

Can anyone make some suggestions on how to get this flat. I thought about putting pressure on the toe and heal during the flattening. But I do not want to ruin the plane. So I will wait for some advise. Where should I hold the plane during the flattening process?

James

In my opinion, too much emphasis is directed toward a perfectly flat plane sole. At one time, I kind of ignored Patrick Leach's rant about the "flat plane sole society." Now we are pretty much in agreement on the issue. It is my choice to only lap plane soles if they have a lot of pitting, rust or scratches. A century ago, craftsmen bought these tools, sharpened the blade and went to work. Some did not even bother to sharpen the blade. They produced some fantastic work with just being able to use the tool as it was made.

A few questions are in order.

1) The abrasive being used, what is the grit and how long is the sheet you are using?
-- The sheet should be at least longer than the plane sole. If a belt sander loop is being used, try for twice as long.

2) Can you see flexing in the plane sole?

-- If you can, there is something wrong with the sole.

3) How are you holding the plane as you lap the sole? Do you turn the plane end for end every few strokes?

-- Holding the plane by the knob and tote tends to "rock" the sole as it is being lapped. This can create a banana shape. I do not lap many soles of planes and have one or two that are slightly warped yet they still can do good work. Try holding the plane in the center.

-- All the parts should be on the plane while lapping the sole. The frog needs to be in place and fully tightened and set, the blade, cap iron and lever cap need to be in place and tension on the lever cap screw needs to be as if the plane was in use. Retract the blade so it is not in a cutting position. This will put the same stresses on the plane as it will have in use.

4) How much of a gap in the center are we talking about? How much of an arc in the center of the board and how long of a board?

-- I can an arced edge with a "flat" jointer. To avoid this start the cut with the weight on the toe of the plane to resister it on the edge being joined. This should just be light pressure, not trying to put the whole body into it. As the plane gets fully onto the wood, the pressure should be shifted to the heel of the plane. Again, not the full weight of the body. The "full weight" of the body should be directed to the line of motion forward. At this point, the knob is used to guide the plane to be square to the face of the board. If there is still an arc, start more toward the center and stop before the end, repeat as needed.

jim

[Matt Wilson]

In my opinion, too much emphasis is directed toward a perfectly flat plane sole.

+1 on this.
Frankly I think you are more likely to make it worse than better.

[James White]

Hi Guys,

Having more ambition than patients. I went ahead with my attempt to flatten the plane. To answer some of your questions. The jointer is near dead flat on the portion of the bed that I am using. I am using a Lee Valley aluminum strait edge that I trust to be flat. The paper i am using is used 60 grit from an 8" drum sander. It is about 3 inches shorter than the plane. That coupled with me pushing down too hard and inadvertently flexing the plane is likely the culprit. In order to fix it with what I have available. I continued flattening but alternated between putting pressure on the toe for a few strokes and then on the heal for a few strokes. When I started the sole was about .003" concave. This was causing the board I was jointing to have a major ark. Something like .015" on each end. The more I jointed the worse it would get. I am using the technique Jim describes for planing. I have succeeded in getting the concave down to about .0015". This leaves a jointed edge with about .007 at the beginning of the joint and .009" at the end. Still too much for jointing in my opinion. With the sole being concave the blade will bite in at the end of the board every time despite it being being low. Then again at the end of the board for about the last 1.5"s.

Alas, a am worn out from doing this and the paper is quit dull at this point. I plan to get a fresh drum belt that is a little longer and only 100 grit since things are pretty darn close at this point.

Sitting back with my virtual flame suit for those that think that this is obsessive. I see nothing wrong with wanting well tuned tools for quick accurate work. If my mechanical jointer can achieve dead strait edge than so can a hand held jointer??? No?

Edit: This last paragraph was not meant to be confrontational. Rater it was meant to be humerus. I was not looking to offend anyone. I respect other peoples opinions. Smiley face added.

James

[Ben Rafael]

I see no point in flattening a #7 as long as the area around the mouth is flat enough. Are the shavings to your liking?

[dan grant]

knowing that it is not rocket science i would think a plane has to be pretty well flat to joint a board properly, cant imagine using one shaped like a bananna, my own oppinion of course

[Ben Rafael]

knowing that it is not rocket science i would think a plane has to be pretty well flat to joint a board properly, cant imagine using one shaped like a bananna, my own oppinion of course

Unless you wanted to plane a banana.

I'm results oriented. If a plane makes good shavings then I dont mess with it.

[jerry nazard]

James,

I did a #4 recently and know what you mean about all the sanding. I extended the life of my paper by keeping a shop vac running and cleaning the paper surface after every 20 - 30 strokes. It lengthened the life of the paper and increased it's cutting efficiency.

-Jerry

[dan grant]

Unless you wanted to plane a banana.

I'm results oriented. If a plane makes good shavings then I dont mess with it.

a spoke shave will make good shavings but it will be hard to get anything uniformly flat

[Robert Rozaieski]

Lapping long soled planes is an exercise in frustration as you are finding out. When lapping, it's much easier to make things worse than it is to get it right. I stopped lapping years ago and prefer to use a scraper or file or another plane or card scraper in the case of a wooden bodied plane. Rather than lap, it is much easier to take your accurate straight edge, clamp yorr plane in your bench vise upside down, use your straight edge to check and mark high spots and then only scrape, file or plane those spots. Then recheck, remark and repeat. Keep doing this until your sole is as flat as you want it to be. The problem with lapping is that the sandpaper dulls much faster than most people think. The center section tends to dull and clog first and you wind up lapping more steel away from the outside edges than the middle which eventually creates a convex sole which is very hard to remedy. The longer the plane, the faster that paper will dull, especially the center. Filing or scraping is much faster, easier and more precise.

Of course all this only applies if the plane doesn't work right after using it first. No sense fixing something that isn't broken to begin with.

[Jim Nardi]

On a piece of paper
Lay the plane on it's side and draw a line with a pencil along the base flip it over onto the other side and repeat. Bottom of plane line to bottom of plane line you should see where the problem is. More can be done but put the blade in and do some edge planing see how it works.

[James White]

Bob/Jim,

Thank you for the tips. I tried the pencil and paper trick and it work quite well. Confirmed the the plane is still concave at the mouth area. It's not much but I still would like this area to make contact. It seems the closer I get, the nicer the plane works. In theory I guess that it means the blade will protrude less and therefore be able to slice rather than dig into the wood. Hopefully Ill get it working properly today.

Bob,

Were can I learn more about scraping for this propose? What tools are needed and technique. I have a Chinese mini lathe that would benefit from scraping on the cross slide ways.

James

[Robert Rozaieski]

Bob,

Were can I learn more about scraping for this propose? What tools are needed and technique. I have a Chinese mini lathe that would benefit from scraping on the cross slide ways.

James

James,

I scrape wooden planes with a card scraper. I filed metal planes when I used to use them (never used a metal scraper myself because files work faster). Not much to it really. If you can plane the edge of a board straight, you can do the same to the plane. Put it in the vise like a board, check it with the straightedge, mark the high spots with a sharpie and file the marks away. Then recheck, remark and file again. Use a regular bastard mil file and a light touch (a file can remove metal VERY fast). Toward the end once you are close you can drawfile the entire sole to clean it up and finish it off. For the lathe, you could probably draw file it.