This is a must read for everyone !!!!!!!

[Bill Wyko]

HAHA. Almost all my projects do time on the end of the table saw.

[Rob Fargher]

Cold and snowy lad. We're waiting for spring.....

Speak for yourself. The daffodils are out, here in Lotusland.

--
Cheers,
Rob

[Rob Fargher]

I think oxalic acid is poisonous. You may want to check this out,and keep it off your hands until you do.

Oxalic acid is the reason why rhubarb leaves are poisonous; they have a dangerous level of oxalic acid in them. Rhubarb stems have a lower level of oxalic acid in them.

Oxalic acid is dangerous because it is a chelator. This means that it binds the ionized calcium (Ca++) in your blood plasma. Your heart needs a critical level of Ca++ to contract. If you ingest too much oxalic acid, your heart won't get the Ca++ it needs and your wife will be collecting on your life insurance.

There's no need to be paranoid about it, it's not all that dangerous. But don't eat it by the spoonfull. BTW, citric acid is also a chelator.

--
Cheers,
Rob Fargher, Ph.D.

[David Keller NC]

"Oxalic acid is dangerous because it is a chelator. This means that it binds the ionized calcium (Ca++) in your blood plasma. Your heart needs a critical level of Ca++ to contract. If you ingest too much oxalic acid, your heart won't get the Ca++ it needs and your wife will be collecting on your life insurance.

There's no need to be paranoid about it, it's not all that dangerous. But don't eat it by the spoonfull. BTW, citric acid is also a chelator."

There are some further nuances to this; oxalic can be absorbed through your skin (and in sufficient quantities to cause kidney damage). Not only is oxalic acid toxic by the mechanism you described, it's also poisonous in smaller amounts by causing kidney damage.

The reason is that calcium oxylate is not very water soluble, so the chelated complex precipitates out in the kidneys. One potential effect are kidney stones.

Citric acid, on the other hand, does not form an insoluble complex with calcium, and is far safer. It would take an absolutely massive dose of citric acid to be toxic, and the mode of action wouldn't actually be the citric acid itself, it would cause the blood pH to drop (acidosis).

[Clint Merrill]

Bkf, Bar Keeper's Friend is usually available at most WM stores !

Now, What is all this nonsense about not using the correct name for a product ????? Are we not in a country that still allows FREEDOM OF SPEECH ?
Or has that been given up too ?????? If so, the change we need is certainly what we got in November !!!!!!!

Sorry, but I am new to this forum and also a very concerned AMERICAN.

Clint

[David G Baker]

Was that a political sneak?

[Jim Dailey]

My question to Rob (Welcome!!!) & Dave about oxalic acid is the following;

if I use a good pair of rubber gloves can I make a paste of oxalic acid & oil to clean my soiled cast iron tops and not trash my kidney's?

Thanks, jim

[Jim Sears]

Bkf, Bar Keeper's Friend is usually available at most WM stores !

Now, What is all this nonsense about not using the correct name for a product ????? Are we not in a country that still allows FREEDOM OF SPEECH ?
Or has that been given up too ?????? If so, the change we need is certainly what we got in November !!!!!!!

Sorry, but I am new to this forum and also a very concerned AMERICAN.

Clint

I really don't see anything in this thread that should concern you about patriotism. I think if you read through most of the threads on this forum, you'll find that patriotism AND free speech is NOT an issue.

[Rob Price]

Bkf, Bar Keeper's Friend is usually available at most WM stores !

Now, What is all this nonsense about not using the correct name for a product ????? Are we not in a country that still allows FREEDOM OF SPEECH ?
Or has that been given up too ?????? If so, the change we need is certainly what we got in November !!!!!!!

Sorry, but I am new to this forum and also a very concerned AMERICAN.

Clint

I've read through the thread twice, what are you talking about?

[Bill Stoffels]

I will try it this morning and let you know
Bill

[Frank Hagan]

By the way, guys. Bar Keeper's Friend is essentially oxalic acid with some grit and surfactants. Oxalic acid is poisonous, so use caution.

If you want to use pure oxalic (because it's cheaper and you don't want the other stuff in it), you can by a container of oxalic at any Sherman Williams store.

There are, by the way, several other things that you can use to easily remove rust stains off of cast iron and the like - citric acid works well (and is also safe to handle and is non-toxic), and the ultimate is phosphoric acid (which is what "Naval Jelly" is).

However, be aware that oxalic, citric, phosphoric and nitric acids (all of which will selectively remove rust) will leave behind a gray surface. If you want to maintain a polished, bright surface, perhaps the best stuff to use is Brasso (it works just as well on iron as it does on brass).

Bar Keeper's Friend is about 5% oxalic acid so its not too much of a problem. They don't cite an absorbtion issue with it at all. You shouldn't eat it, but you don't even have to wear gloves. The MSDS for it is at this PDF file link: http://www.barkeepersfriend.com/BKF_MSDS_01_09.pdf

Straight oxalic acid does absorb through the skin, and the MSDS for it is at http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/o6044.htm

A greater danger for all of us is dihydrogen monoxide, aka hydric acid, because most of us never take any special precautions. Yet it causes more deaths per year, especially of children, than oxalic acid has in 50 years. MSDS for it is at http://www.dhmo.org/msdsdhmo.html

[Rob Fargher]

My question to Rob (Welcome!!!)

Thanks, I'm learning a lot perusing the Creek. I might even be able to upgrade my status from Jr. Amateur Woodbutcher to Sr. Amateur Woodbutcher.

if I use a good pair of rubber gloves can I make a paste of oxalic acid & oil to clean my soiled cast iron tops and not trash my kidney's?

Surely. And it's a good idea, too, as you won't have to clean your hands afterwards. Seriously, though, you're liable to get more oxalic acid in your body from eating rhubarb pie than using a product like BKF. And, yeah, it's a toxic substance but not all that dangerous. Certainly nowhere near James Bond black pill dangerous! There have been massively more people killed by the extremely common everyday chemical hydric acid (AKA dihyrogen oxide) than oxalic acid.

I'm thinking of trying it on my sawtop in a paste made with WD-40.

--
Cheers,
Rob

[Montgomery Scott]

Stains are irrelevant. They do not impair the function of the machine ergo they do not need to be addressed.

[joe Katzenberger]

Peter, when you are in South Carolina, stop by the house. I will let you grab a beer from the shop refrigerator. You don't have to shoot a guy with your nailer just to get a beer!

[Bill Wyko]

Sorry MS. I feel otherwise. A metal top that's not cared for can lead to build up of other contaminates and etching of the metal. It's all about caring and respect for the tools.