If you're thinking about buying a new Unisaw or PM2000-- WAIT!!

[Greg Pavlov]

Perhaps I missed something. I've been following this thread with interest and I don't recall any posts where someone called, or even suggested, that someone may be an idiot for purchasing the new SS in question. .....

You're right, but what I do see in every thread about SS is the claim that people who buy SSs do so because they don't want to take the time & effort to be careful and work with respect for what a saw can do to the operator.

[Paul Ryan]

Sarge,


I own the new sawstop professional saw. The lighter duty saw. I would like to hear your opion as well.

[John Thompson]

Sarge,


I own the new sawstop professional saw. The lighter duty saw. I would like to hear your opion as well.

The fit and finish is as you state.. excellent. The trunnions are no more robust than the Uni-saw or PM 2000 and BTW.. the trunnions and build on the PM 2000 are not as robust as the older PM 66's. That's why after the 2000 came out and the 66's were still being built.. the PM 66 was priced around $200-$300 more than the 2000 even with a riving knife.

With the break the professional has an edge IMO as many would like to have it but not many over-all are going to pay the premium they have to with the older model. The majority of people in need of a TS cannot dump 5 K into one when they don't have a jointer.. planer.. etc. etc.. and not even sure just starting out if they will stay in this hobby long enough to justify a price as such for just one machine. Even though the older model made by Gee-tech in Taiwan is much more robust even without the break.. it is a wallet breaker for any new to WW or even most that are not when a very good saw can be had for less.

So.. my thoughts are if someone "is" going to drop 3 K into a new saw.. the professional seems to be a rather vaible choice in that class as it appears it can deliver the same results as the competitors and has a blade break to boot. But.. I still question the impact that break creates on components when it goes off. At the moment just replace the $78 (I think someone mentioned that price) and an expensive blade.

I question that on the more expensive one which is much more robust than the professional so... just how well will it hold up after numerous high impacts as I saw demonstrated on video before the expense may go beyond just the break and blade? I can't really say for sure this will happen but I can certainly speculate it may. Only time will tell as Time is the real Test under actual usage.

Regards...

Sarge..

[Grant Vanbokklen]

Now some are awed by the safety features of SS. I am more awed by good woodworkers using sleds, guards, finger boards, hold downs, push sticks, etc. I hope the SS devotees can accept that others may not have the same opinion as they. I have always thought that good technique, planning and training is a better standard, and more proactive, than making a saw naive proof.

I agree. I think the Saw Stop is an internet forum weekend warrior with extra cash groupie thing.

I would seriously take a look at the Powermatic and new Unisaw and NOT WAIT, but learn how to use a saw safely.

[mreza Salav]

Once the other companies realize they are loosing a large chunk of their market to SS (which I suspect will happen gradually) they will start developing a similar feature for their saws. Or it becomes mandatory by law (just like riving knife has been). These may take a bit longer than a few years but I think at least one of the two will come. Either way, I think it will be creating competition and driving the prices down a bit; a good outcome for users.

[Paul Ryan]

I question that on the more expensive one which is much more robust than the professional so... just how well will it hold up after numerous high impacts as I saw demonstrated on video before the expense may go beyond just the break and blade? I can't really say for sure this will happen but I can certainly speculate it may. Only time will tell as Time is the real Test under actual usage.

Regards...

Sarge..

I too wonder how much pounding from the brake mechanism a machine will take. I really don't plan on the brake in my saw ever going off, and to be honest if it goes off 2 twice in the time I own the saw that is 2 times too many. But the technology is there for a reason. The price to be back up and running, is about $70 plus a blade or $90 plus a dado set. And it takes less than an extra minute to change out the cartridge. I thought at 1st it would be a real pain changing from regular blade to the dado, vue to having to change the cartridge and set the blade spacing. Well the blade spacing when I change doesn't need to be changed (fortunatly all of the blades I run are the same size) and it is real quick to change the cartridge.

I can tell you this. Inside the saw there is a hard soild rubber bumber that absorbs some of the impact if and when the brake goes off. There really has to be some kind of stop. It is kind of like a frame mounted over load bumber on the suspension of most vehicles.

I agree with your assement of this new saw. And I think that is what sawstop was shooting for. A direct competitor to the Uni, and PM2000, price range and construction.

[Frank Trinkle]

I think it's important to note that the price is a GUESSTIMATE only at this time. The final pricing won't be set until this summer's release.

My speculation is that SS will probably price this saw DIRECTLY against the 2000 and the Unisaw... so whatever price they come in at with rails and fence is likely to be about the same price as the PCS.

Additionally, we have yet to see the overhead dust collection system that will be a standard feature on the PCS when released. There will be both upper and lower DC and the claim is for 99% collection, a claim that I don't doubt considering that SS has not exaggerated any other claims.

[Ed Calkins]

Folks, a number of us on this board have been field testing the upcoming SawStop Cabinet Saw (called the "Professional Cabinet Saw"). It is going to be marketed directly in competition with the new Delta Unisaw and Powermatic PM2000 series.

If you have been contemplating purchasing one of those saws, you would do yourself a great favor by WAITING until this summer when the new SawStop is released to the public.

Those of us who have been field testing are OVERWHELMED by not only the fit and finish, but by the functionality, ease of assembly, and the included accessories. It is one GREAT saw and is going to probably outsell the others by a large margin. PLUS... you will get SawStops patented safety brake system.

Don't end up with buyer's remorse until you've had a chance to see, or play with this new saw when released this summer. Three words describe this TS:

"WHAT A SAW!!"

Well I have been both surprised and amused following this thread -- almost like republicans and democrats trying to reach common ground. I should know better but I thought I would add my two cents to the discussion as a different point of view -- as most of you are very experienced and know what you are talking about -- my view is the observation of a novice:
1) I am setting up a new shop to change my occassional ww to more of a hobby now that I am retired. I wasn't sure I was even going to get a TS but the SawStop PCS offer pushed me over the edge and I purchased one on the test site discount.
2) I can see how some other cabinet saw owners can get a little put off by the first post as (while I'm sure it wasn't intended) there is an implication that a PCS is an obivious better choice than the other brands mentioned. "testers overwhelmed", will outsell other saws by a great margin, etc. etc.
3) So far I really like the PCS, however I don't know that it is any better than a PM2000 or other good saws, they all look good in the showroom to me -- the shiney black finish is nice but probably doesn't do much for the cut quality. However quality is clearly a focus of SawStop which is good.
4) I can't agree that it has great ease of assembly -- there is more assembly than I thought there would be (can't compare to other saws however), and it was not really difficult as I am a pretty good technician but I can see the table adjustments etc. could be challenging to some --I guess it all depends on how close to "flat" you want to get. I can only compare it to my minimax MM16 bandsaw (which I acknowledge is a much simpler machine) which was much easier to setup.
5)I am a little concerned that some of the more experienced users that think so highly of this saw are already changing out the fence and mitre gauge etc. -- I hope I can successfully use what came with this costly machine.
6) I do admit that I was willing to pay a small premium for the blade brake as I hope to get my grandkids exposed to some basic woodworking and this saw over the next several years --- safety of course will be the focus and they won't even hear about the blade brake technology.

So, in summary, I really like the PCS and my decision so far. I might have gone for the industrial model but would have delayed my table saw decision if this PCS opportunity didn't come along. The SawStop support has been great (as one would expect from a test program). But to say I am overwhelmed and suggest that everyone else should put all other purchase plans on hold would be too strong of a statement for me to make at this time.
Ed

[Greg Pavlov]

.......
I make up for it hitting my head on just about everything else. ....

Same here. I figured that by the time I got to 60 (yrs, not mph) I'd have gotten past that, but no dice, still smack it into something at least once a week AND, since I've lost all the hair on top, it gets more painful and less pretty every time I do.

[Greg Pavlov]

their faq says it is
yet we see threads about woods with high moisture contents triggering the brake every few months.

Isn't there something on/with the saw that allows you to test for that before trying to cut the wood?

[Joe Jensen]

It's funny how often the old arguements against safety devices play out. The main arguements we hear on this forum;
1) False sense of security
2) this only solves one risk factor
3) too expensive

These same arguements were played out around every auto safety enhancement, seat belts, folding steering wheels, padding in the dash, ABS, etc. Blah blah blah.

Haven't you guys heard of incremental improvements? Say there are 20 dangerous areas in the shop. Eliminating one makes the worker safer.

I suspect that the dissentors in this arguement fall mainlu into two camps.
1) Can't afford one so they suck
2) Since they didn't pick Sawstop, sawstop sucks
3) they just like to argue

Maybe all the Sawstop suck posts should be kept in a politics lounge or something. Folks there really like to argue, this would fit right in.

[Rick Fisher]

I remember when they started making Hockey players wear helmets.. they didnt tell em to just learn how to play the game properly..

[Cody Colston]

I don't think there's any doubt that the Sawstop is 1. A very good saw and 2. A safer "American-Style" table saw.

What I get tired of is some (not all) of Sawstop users trying to convince everyone in the woodworking world that they should also have a Sawstop. Hey, WE KNOW ALL ABOUT IT. Good grief, every person on this forum who has bought one has touted it's superiority here... enough already.

I could counter with the argument that a European slider is a safer saw than the Sawstop since your hands don't have to come anywhere near the blade, thus all you Sawstop owners should run out and buy a $10,000 Felder or Minimax or whatever. You don't want to pay that much money? Well, how much is a finger or a hand worth? Haven't you ever heard of incremental safety? Even if a Minimax slider is only slightly safer than a Sawstop, that would make your whole shop safer...for only $10,000. After all, it's only money we're talking about. Besides, European-style sliders will probably become mandatory soon, anyway. Remember, you didn't want to wear a seatbelt until it became mandatory and look how many lives it's saved. Even hockey players didn't want to wear helmets until they were made mandatory by the NHL. You Sawstop people need to wake up and realize this is the 21st. century.

That's exactly the kind of rhetoric I read every time a Sawstop thread comes up. If you like it, fine, enjoy. But quit trying to convince the rest of us to buy one. It's almost like you Sawstop owners need reassurance that you did the right thing in buying one.

[Larry Edgerton]

I don't think there's any doubt that the Sawstop is 1. A very good saw and 2. A safer "American-Style" table saw.

What I get tired of is some (not all) of Sawstop users trying to convince everyone in the woodworking world that they should also have a Sawstop. Hey, WE KNOW ALL ABOUT IT. Good grief, every person on this forum who has bought one has touted it's superiority here... enough already.

I could counter with the argument that a European slider is a safer saw than the Sawstop since your hands don't have to come anywhere near the blade, thus all you Sawstop owners should run out and buy a $10,000 Felder or Minimax or whatever. You don't want to pay that much money? Well, how much is a finger or a hand worth? Haven't you ever heard of incremental safety? Even if a Minimax slider is only slightly safer than a Sawstop, that would make your whole shop safer...for only $10,000. After all, it's only money we're talking about. Besides, European-style sliders will probably become mandatory soon, anyway. Remember, you didn't want to wear a seatbelt until it became mandatory and look how many lives it's saved. Even hockey players didn't want to wear helmets until they were made mandatory by the NHL. You Sawstop people need to wake up and realize this is the 21st. century.

That's exactly the kind of rhetoric I read every time a Sawstop thread comes up. If you like it, fine, enjoy. But quit trying to convince the rest of us to buy one. It's almost like you Sawstop owners need reassurance that you did the right thing in buying one.

LMAO I expect Billy Mays to start hawking them soon.

[Greg Pavlov]

It's funny how often the old arguements against safety devices play out. The main arguements we hear on this forum;
1) False sense of security
2) this only solves one risk factor
3) too expensive
These same arguements were played out around every auto safety enhancement, seat belts, folding steering wheels, padding in the dash, ABS, etc. Blah blah blah.

It's funny because I agreed with you, but 10 minutes ago I ran across an article on the smithsonian site that said that in fact those arguments may be/probably are? true; give examples, etc.