If you're thinking about buying a new Unisaw or PM2000-- WAIT!!

[Craig Nickles]

We're discussing NEW saws... not your used one.

Well Frank...............I happen to be making a point........old or new 3 THOUSAND DOLLARS IS ALOT OF MONEY FOR A SAW WHOMEVER MAKES IT. My point is that it leaves alot of us out in the cold at that price. If ya dont want people discussing their opinions, then dont post something for all to see and discuss in an open forum.

[Jim Kountz]

Break out the fire hoses boys!! We got a wild one going on here!! LOL

[Guy Belleman]

I am glad that the starter of this thread is happy with SS, as others are. But again I like having a choice, free choice, as others do. Ever since SS came out, the developer and company has been trying to get their patent to become the standard on all saws, by even filing a petition with the Consumer Product Safety Commission: http://www.cpsc.gov/LIBRARY/FOIA/foi.../tablesaw2.pdf

If you want to review the entire 93 page CPSC report back to the petition, it can be found at several locations, one being: http://www.scribd.com/doc/1732844/Co...afety-tablesaw

It is interesting to note that injury statistics quoted are estimates, not actual figures. Of course, that could lead to whole other discussion.

As the Commission states, the blade brake might be a good idea. They also say, on page 24, that any requirement would set as performance requirments that could be met in a number of ways. Perhaps, not the SS system, but by other systems yet to be developed.

In the Commission's report there is actually a second implementation that is going into effect, the riving knife. I have not owned or operated a saw with a riving knife, but from what I have read, it is a good item to have. So, I have decided that my next saw, to be purchased in the next month, will have a riving knife. Still it not going to be a SS. But, now that some of the new saws have riving knives, maybe that is a good thing that came out of the SS petition.

In my life, I have seen a lot of my choices eliminated by supposed safety enthusiasts. Most would make all of my toys super safe, or remove the toy from the market, but never ensure that I am properly trained in the use of each toy. And that type of safety doesn't matter whether it is a SS, Unisaw, or PM2000. Not sure what the best way to go, but I am sure it not forcing, or pushing SS upon us.

Again, I hope the SS advocates can allow us our own opinions and choices, and not force them upon us with further petitions to the Consumer Safety Product Commission.

[Bill Blackburn]

I will stop and do a looky to but other than that I cannot say. I still look at the cost, even if $3K means $3400+ with tax and delivery. It remains to rich for my blood for the amount of time it's in use here.
Nice looking saw tho, really pretty.
I value my fingers but .... just to rich a luxury for me I'm afraid. If I could get it free I surely will make the room

[Frank Trinkle]

I will stop and do a looky to but other than that I cannot say. I still look at the cost, even if $3K means $3400+ with tax and delivery. It remains to rich for my blood for the amount of time it's in use here.
Nice looking saw tho, really pretty.
I value my fingers but .... just to rich a luxury for me I'm afraid. If I could get it free I surely will make the room

SawStop has not yet set the price in stone, but the best guess is around $2500 WITH the rails and fence, plus shipping and tax.

[Karl Brogger]

These SawStop threads are weird -- They are just strange to read.

Is it just me?

Nope, not just you.




I don't like the idea of the SawStop simply because it breeds complacency. Of the "I can't cut off my finger, why should I be carefull?" variation. Where as consciously not putting yourself in a position to lose a digit is always the best way to do things whether in woodworking or life. Its hard to cut off a finger if it never touches the blade. I seriously doubt there is a respectable number of tablesaw related injuries that weren't immediatly followed with the thought "I shouldn't have.....", or were completly avoidable with just a bit of fore thought.

How ever in a high school setting Its probably the best route. Kids, especially teenagers, are habitually stupid. If you want to spend your money on a gizmo, more power to ya.

[Frank Trinkle]

Nope, not just you.




I don't like the idea of the SawStop simply because it breeds complacency. Of the "I can't cut off my finger, why should I be carefull?" variation. Where as consciously not putting yourself in a position to lose a digit is always the best way to do things whether in woodworking or life. Its hard to cut off a finger if it never touches the blade. I seriously doubt there is a respectable number of tablesaw related injuries that weren't immediatly followed with the thought "I shouldn't have.....", or were completly avoidable with just a bit of fore thought.

With all due respect, that argument doesn't hold water. It is used everytime a new safety feature is added to many things.

For example, in my own occupation as a helicopter pilot, the same argument was used when the FAA certified full navigational and control Autopilots in advanced helicopters. Am I more complacent about flying because I now have an automatic "co-pilot"? NOT!

Do you drive more complacently because you're required to wear a seat belt and have air bags?

Are you more complacent because you're required to wear a helmet on a motorcycle (and bicycles in some areas).

Will you be more complacent if you buy a new saw with a mandated riving knife, or when using a blade guard?

Have you banged your head into your garage door more often since they mandated that doors automatically retract if sensing an unplanned stop... and added infrared obstruction sensors?

The idea that a new safety feature will cause complacency just doesn't bear out in practice. (With perhaps the sole exception of the story about the woman with a new motor home who was using her first ever cruise control and then left the driver's seat to make a cup of coffee! )

[Philip Rodriquez]

Frank hit it on the nose. Sure, I feel a little safer... but I find that I am actually more aware of what I'm sliding by the blade. One small slip and you could be replacing a blade ($110), a brake ($70), and my thong (purchased used for $1.00). That's $181.00, plus tax

[Chip Lindley]

INATTENTION or BAD PRACTICE causes the most accidents, regardless of which machine is involved. The Table Saw is only ONE among many machines in a shop! Every operation includes some *calculated risk*!

In numbers, I wonder how many Bandsaw accidents? Router accidents? Drill Press accidents? Jointer accidents? compare with Table Saw accidents? Hmm...

NEW safety technology comes at a High Price! IMHO, it is a double-edged sword! Including the ability to stop a machine dead in it's tracks may be a new door which swings both ways! Our society has Dumbed Down increasingly, expecting *technology* to do IT ALL for them! They have no need to understand how something works in order to use it! *GUT FEELING* or *6th SENSE* are archaic terms relegated to by-gone years when men and women *Flew By The Seat Of Their Pants*!

Knowing that one cannot possibly receive a major injury will LULL some into a false sense of security, relieving the operator of his responsibility to Learn The Machine and Master it! After all, nothings gonna happen! RIIIIIGHT!

[Doug Mason]

If I could afford it--I would get it. But not for the saftey feature per se.

I fall into Chip's way of thinking--if one is prone to an accident on the tablesaw, what about everything else? Personally, I am more worried about a bandsaw accident than a tablesaw accident. And what about dust--for most of us that is more dangerous than the tablesaw.

[Brent Ring]

...If you have been contemplating purchasing one of those saws, you would do yourself a great favor by WAITING until this summer when the new SawStop is released to the public.

Those of us who have been field testing are OVERWHELMED by not only the fit and finish, but by the functionality, ease of assembly, and the included accessories. It is one GREAT saw and is going to probably outsell the others by a large margin. PLUS... you will get SawStops patented safety brake system.

Don't end up with buyer's remorse until you've had a chance to see, or play with this new saw when released this summer.

Am I less of a woodworker or person, or wrong, because I may or may not not have the budget, or choose to spend my hard-earned woodworking dollars differently, or on another technology besides the SS? That is certainly the feeling I get when reading some of these SS threads.

I would love to hear more of the details of the tech, and the projects that you are finishing faster with it, or getting smoother cuts, faster blades changes, whatever your percieved advantages are. Ultimately, if it is nothing more than the cool braking system, then lets say that and call it good!

[Chip Lindley]

With all due respect, Frank, YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL! you THINK like a professional! You are trained and licensed to pilot a helicopter! There is no *competency* test given to own and operate a table saw! (and there are some really inept *pseudo-woodworkers* out there!) THIS is the market which SawStop (IMO) targets even MORE than schools or commercial shops with employee liability!

One must wonder how many curious SS users will *DO* the hot dog test to show all their friends, then balk at buying a pricy replacement cartridge! (just a friendly reminder to replace those air bags after an Oops! False Alarm!) *chuckle*!!

[Robert Strebler]

I will be buying a SS in the near (within 2 years) future. Medical bills alone would cost far more than the saw if I were to screw up.

It's a premium saw at a premium price and as such, I would expect a quality saw. However, it does offer something that no other manufacturers do at this time. My digits are more valuable than a chunk of cast iron and steel.

I'm happy that they are making a cabinet saw in the price range of the Uni and PM 2000, which I would imagine SS envisions as it's competition for this model.

[Chris Friesen]

Personally, I am more worried about a bandsaw accident than a tablesaw accident.

While it still has its own risks, the bandsaw is safer for a number of reasons:

1) The blade is much narrower, so warped stock is less likely to bind.
2) The force of the cut is straight down into the table--there's no chance of kickback.
3) If you keep the blade guides down near the surface of the wood like you're supposed to, there's a relatively small area of exposed blade. The most risk is at the end of the cut, and you can usually use a pushstick or hold the stock at some distance from the blade.

[John Thompson]

I have to agree with Guy.. Karl and Chip on many being "lulled" into thinking you can't be injured on a TS because you have a blade break to avoid cut and a riving knife to avoid kick-back. The blade break is a great feature for those that don't appear to respect the saw nor will avoid performing task with it that allow your hands to get too close to the blade.

A riving knife is one aid in helping avoid kick-back but... so is a splitter. But... those items alone cannot totally eliminate kick-back which can injure you. A blade break has no bearing on kick-back at all. If you want to avoid both amputation and kick-back.. install a power feed which will conquer both.

In lieu of waiting for someone to invent a blade-break as they did several years ago now, I optioned to get started WW'ing in 1972 before the fact. But.. I also optioned to listen to what I was told by my HS shop instructor about practicing proper safety procedures and using proper safety features such as feather-boards... shields.. and custom push-sticks. Since that day.. I have added crown guards and a short fence for ripping. And as I was instructed in 1964... never cross the lane of a spiinning blade while it is still in motion.

Frankly... I'm glad I didn't lose 34 years of experience waiting for the blade break to be un-vieled ceremonously before I purchased a TS. I was in a local cabinet shop who opted to replace 2 TS's with SS blade breaks for insurance premium reductions about two weeks ago. I asked two of the employee's how they liked the saw. Excellent saw and we don't have to worry about injury having a blade break was the consensus of both I asked.

I noticed that both SS's did not have the riving knife installed.. no feather-boards were used as they took too much time to set up according to them when I ask if they were ever used.. no shields and no dust control. I didn't say a word to the two gentleman as it was not really my responsibility to do so.

I walked out thinking I don't have a blade break and probably never will. I walked out having been "gut smacked" on 5 occasions with kick-back as everything short of power feeds IMO cannot totally eliminate kick-back. I walked out thinking the same thing I did when I entered... I must respect the saw.. I must continue to use disciplined safety procedures and devices.. and still remain aware of the fact the saw can still bite me if I abandon discipline and procedure.

I walked out thinking that even without a blade break.. I was at a much lower risk of getting injured than those two gentleman who had been "lulled" into thinking they were no longer invinceable because they now had one.

I think the blade break is a great idea.. but I also think it falls far short of the Holy Grail that will lead us to the promised land. You can't replace basic, sound safety with high tech regardless of how much you pretend it is no longer relevant.

Ya'll have a good and safe day in the shop as I intend to do...

Sarge..