I have been looking at pictures and specs on the Powermatic PM2700 5 hp shaper, but haven't seen one in real life. Has anyone used one? If so, what do you think of it? Pros, cons, etc.
[OP]
Member
I have been looking at pictures and specs on the Powermatic PM2700 5 hp shaper, but haven't seen one in real life. Has anyone used one? If so, what do you think of it? Pros, cons, etc.
Contributor
have the older model 26 shaper. Mine was sold with 3 or 5HP, and interchangeable 1/2", 3/4" and router bit spindles. Or with a solid 1" spindle, or with a solide 1 1/4" spindle. I ordered mine new in 1990 with the interchangeable spindles. The model 27 came out shortly after I got my model 26. The model 27 has the same mechanism underneath (plenty heavy) and a larger table. Nice machine. I think the model 27 was around $2900 last I saw.
If I were just starting with a shaper, I'd get a 1 1/4" spindle as there are tons of used cheap pro shaper cutters out there. Also, in my experience the shaper cutters are cheaper. I picked up a new spindle assembly for mine with the 1 1/4" solid spindle with plans/hopes of picking up a bunch of cheap cutters. So far I haven't taken the plunge on the cutters yet.
Member
Ive had that exact shaper for about two years now. I keep it set up with a raised panel and back cutter which I run in a single pass. It performs flawlessly.
Anything specific you would like to know?
Contributor
Never mind, I'm an idiot. I thought you said PM27. I have no experience with the newer one except the fence looks fantastic, I have envy...joeOriginally Posted by Joe Jensen
Member
Don't mean to hijack, but as long as you're asking, how is the fence to adjust for various setups, or maybe you don't move it much for panel raising? Does the digital spindle height work as well as PM suggests it does, and how do you find the dual port dust collection set up. Any improvement over the typical PM27 or similar shaper set up? And does the mobile base work smoothly in practice? I've been looking real closely at that shaper on line myself as a consideration this year or next, but they never let you fire one up in the store anyway!
Last edited by Peter Quinn; 04-14-2009 at 8:18 PM. Reason: another thought
Member
Hi Peter, the fence is nice, it took some patients to get the two halves inline with each other, after that it has performed well.
The DRO is dead on, until I bought height matched RP cutters, I was writing the heights down for the different cutters, with the DRO I could go back to the same height with each cutter. I never move it now, just drop in a different cutter and go to work.
The dust collection was very good until I started running the RP cutter on top with a sacrificial fence cut away by the cutter. I think I will disconnect the lower port a build a new one that collects right at the cutter.
The built in mobile base is great, the machine moves in any direction, unlike some bolt on mobile bases and can be moved with one hand. I dont move it anymore because I bolted it to a larger Felder shaper and they share the same feeded.
All in all, I think it was worth the price.I will be buying 2 more shapers this year ( 6 total ). I will probably buy something a little cheaper just because I dont need that much shaper for things like door edge cutters.
Hopefully, this answered some of your questions
Contributor
Charlie,
Keep in mind that all shapers with 1 1/4" spindles are not created equal. Whether 3 or 5 hp, the limiting factors are the maximum diameter cutter that machine can handle as well as the spindle travel. I see lots of great deals on cutters with a 7" or 8" major diameter that are just too big for any machines except real industrial equipment. It's not a bad thing for an amateur woodworker to max out at 5 inches of diameter or so since an 8" cutter can seem really frightful to someone not used to shaping wood on an airplane propeller. Merely the sound of a large diameter raised panel cutter can cause chills.
fmr
Guest
Sorry for the hi-jack. A setup that I've used and like for running panels is to take a piece of melamine about the same size or a little bigger than the top of the shaper. Run a dado the full width of the piece lined up with about where it should be in line with the bearing on the cutter and drop another piece of melamine in the dado for the fence. (just measure from the front edge to the bearing). Next just pocket screw a box on with the cutter installed. I've found the tighter the things are around the cutter the better the dust collection works. You can make a port in the back and get things scary close if need be.
Its kind of a pain though if you change setups on that shaper frequently.
Stay away from those giant raised panel cutters. The tip speed is rediculous, and way too fast. I recently picked up a LRH insert cutter head for raised panels and that thing is the cat's pajamas.
Member
I did an extended review of the PM2700, using it in my shop for nearly two years and have to agree that it is a super machine. The digital height readout is way more useful than I would have suspected and is dead-on accurate. I had the 5 HP version and even with major panel raising cutters, it had way more power than I needed. And, the fence is extremely flexible in terms of setup with micrometer-like adjustments that let the operator tweak it as needed for cuts made in either left-to-right or right-to-left directions.
I have a review with lots of photos and a video at the link below if that would help.
http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/pm2700rvu.html
"Because There Is Always More To Learn"
Member
Fwiw Jet has new shaper out in 3 hp and 5 hp versions. The fence appears similar if not the same as the PM2700. It doesn't have the digital readout or the cast iron base with integrated caster wheels but it is $800 less and has four speeds vs the two of the PM2700. No experience with either but thought it might be worth a look.
[OP]
Member
Sorry I didn't give more background to help focus your replies... I have a five function combo machine that includes a 5 hp tilting shaper. When I got it, I didn't think I needed a shaper except I no longer had room for a router table. I have fallen in love with the shaper function.
The rumors about the nuisance of changeover time between functions on a combo are false - changeover is not a problem EXCEPT when I need full function on the shaper (not a problem running a router bit with pilot, but it takes quite a few minutes to set up the shaper hood/fence which probably weighs over 50 pounds.).
I have a power feeder, and was thinking of getting the $1000 adapter so it would be easy to use on the combo, and realized that I could get an additional shaper where I could mount my power feeder for "not much more" (okay, $3000, but consider the value of a separate shaper). If I need "fancy" shaper function such as the sliding table or tilting spindle, I have that on the combo with those functions (don't need the Powermatic TS29), but 95% of the time I could use a simpler shaper (if you can call the PM2700 simple).
I have become addicted to the digital height readout on the shaper spindle. It is a huge help. So one of my concerns (answered, thank you) was how accurate the DRO is on the PM2700.
I have built a collection of shaper cutters... originally buying 3/4 inch cutters because they were slightly cheaper, and gradually moving to 1 1/4 inch and upgrading, until my current cabinet door set cost $1700 (and was a good investment). But I need multiple spindles.
Although I have four speeds now, I have never used the lowest speed, and expect that I could be satisfied with two speeds... more comments on speed of the PM2700 are welcome.
My 1 1/4 inch shaper spindle has the router collet on the top, so the overall height under nut is only around 3 inches. When I am doing pattern work (using my Shelix cutter on the shaper), I have to mount the bearing on the bottom... even though sometimes I would prefer it on the top. Bottom line, more height under nut would be good (the PM2700 claims 6 inches on the 1 1/4 spindle). I don't have room under nut to stack my good cutters, but I did with some of my 3/4 inch cutters, and just cranked height on the DRO rather than changing the cutters.
The precision adjustment of the fence is something I have come to enjoy, and the PM2700 looks like it has good fence adjustment. I think that has been confirmed, but I welcome more comments.
I still don't have a router table (I will have fun finding room for the shaper), so the ease of switching to the router spindle is still an open question.
My combo has a very robust shaper... the support and bearings are huge, and are attached to the monster combo (weighs over a ton), so there is never a question about wobble or vibration. I think the robustness of the PM2700 has been answered, but I welcome more comments.
Hopefully I have done a better job listing my concerns, but if I have missed something, please help!
[OP]
Member
Your review was great ... really helpful and informative. Thanks.
But one question... if you really used it for two years, how did you get it so clean for the photos and video?
Member
I keep all of my machines clean from day one, when many of those photos were taken. I normally shoot a bunch of the still photos when the machine is new, shoot more relating to usage along the way and then do the video last. (usually) But, I keep it clean and pretty throughout. When I have that kind of money in things, I tend to pay attention to upkeep......Your review was great ... really helpful and informative. Thanks.
But one question... if you really used it for two years, how did you get it so clean for the photos and video?
"Because There Is Always More To Learn"
Member
One more question to Jay. Tom, or any other PM2000 users that know, about the fence/tube arrangement. Does this fence and hood assembly guarantee the fence plates remain parallel to the miter slot over its range of movement? I have not seen this issue addressed in any literature or reviews on this machine.
I checked out a Felder shaper at an industrial show last year, it had an Aigner type fence on it, and one of the features I found most precious was a set of index pins that maintained the position of the fence plates precisely parallel to the sliding table regardless of how far forward/backward the hood was moved. Setting a typical shaper fence precisely parallel to the miter slot or sliding table is one of the most annoying tasks I can think of, not sure why this problem has not addressed with most shapers.
Thanks again for all your information.
Member
Hi Peter, the sliding tube does a decent job but no, it does not keep the fence exactly parallel with the miter slot, there is enough play to in the tube and yoke that it can be out.
I also own the Felder shaper you are talking about. The fence is made by Felder ( the best non electronic fence I have used ). The fence plates were made by Aigner if they had the adjustable fingers. Even with the index pins it does not guarantee EXACT parallelism with the sliding table.Im talking a few thousands, but it is enough to bind your piece if it is clamped down to the sliding table.
This is why I dont use the sliding table very much. I find it much easier to use jigs that follow the fence. Aigner makes a couple nice ones.
Hope this helps.
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