Table saw recommendation

[Brian W Evans]

First off, let me apologize for bringing this topic for the millionth time - searching for "table saw" brings up way too many posts.

I'm ready to throw in the towel on my General contractor saw because the motor keeps pulling the blade out of alignment with the miter slots. I've tried PALS, prayers, and hammers - all to no avail. So, I'm willing to brave the wrath of SWMBO and tell her I need to upgrade another tool.

Two main questions:

1) 3hp or 5hp? My current 2HP seems adequate - do I really need 5HP?

2) Regardless of HP, which would you go with? I've narrowed my choices to:

• Grizzly G0651
• Powermatic PM2000
• SawStop Cabinet Saw
• General 650

Based on a variety of factors, I'd like to limit my list to these saws.

To preempt some of the more common questions:

• I have 220V outlets in my shop
• I have room for a larger saw
• I can afford these
• I cut hardwood (lots of maple and ash) up to 12/4
• I might cut full sheets of ply on a TS if I had a bigger machine
• Accuracy is paramount, price is also important, though less so

I am aware that the SawStop offers safety features that others don't, but to maintain something of an apples-to-apples comparison here, I'm focusing on how well these saws perform basic table saw functions.

Thanks.

[Rod Sheridan]

I doubt if there is a better quality cabinet saw in that range than the General, which now is available with a riving knife.

In addition it's made in Canada.............Regards, Rod.

[Tom Henry]

If I had the option, the room and the money for it...hands down the SawStop!

[John Thompson]

I am aware that the SawStop offers safety features that others don't, but to maintain something of an apples-to-apples comparison here, I'm focusing on how well these saws perform basic table saw functions.

Thanks.
__________________
Brian Evans

To answer your actual question you asked.. all those saws will perform the functions you mentioned. None will cut full sheets of ply safely without adding additional support tables. A slider can (you said you have room) but.. you really have to have a very large foot-print slider to fully support ply which isn't cheap by any means.

All those saws can be accurate if set up properly.. barr none. The only thing that sticks out in my mind is you state you cut a lot of 12/4 maple and ash. So do I... and the reason I upgraded from a 3 HP TS to a 5 HP TS. The majority of time the extra torque is not needed but... there are times it does matter when dealing with 3" stock.

So.. of those saws all will do what you ask with a price range that varies between $1800 and $4000 + approximately. I would consider paying a few bucks more for the 5 HP as better to have and not necessarily need than not have and need.

Good luck....

Sarge..

[Bruce Page]

Brian, that’s a well thought out “which to buy” post.

My 3hp Unisaw has never left me wanting more power but if I was ripping a lot of 12/4 maple & ash, I might opt for 5hp.

[John Ricci]

I did put my money on the General 650R with the 3hp motor and it has yet to make me wish I'd gone with the 5hp. I looked at quite a few saws before plunking down my $$$ and although the General was the most expensive of my considerations I felt it was the best value of the lot and I very much like the "Made in Canada" aspect of it. You say you have 220v in your shop but consider that the 3hp will be fine on 12ga. wiring but stepping up to 5hp would require you to re-wire with 10ga. My .02Cdn.

J.R.

[Mark Vedder]

I myself am about to purchase a new TS. All my research has led me to the SawStop. Even without the safety feature, it is an excellent saw that, in terms of saw and cut quality, holds its own against (and possibly beats out) the others you are looking at. I've corresponded with some people that own one, and they are very happy with it. Throw in the safety feature, and to me it's a hands down win. If you ever "use" the safety brake even once, the saw has paid for itself 1000 times over.

Like you though, I have the same horsepower question: 3hp vs 5hp. I wonder if the 5hp would be overkill. Or if I got the 3hp would I regret in the future not spending a few extra bucks (relatively speaking) to get the 5hp. My use will be lots 4/4 maple and oak, and a fair amount of 6/4 & 8/4 with some occasional 12/4. I even read one opinion in a safety article where the author believed 5hp was too much power to use safely without a power feeder. I'd be curious to people's opinions and recommendations on the 3hp vs 5hp question.

[Ron Bontz]

If you will be using it a lot and ripping thick hardwoods then obviously the 5 hp would be a better choice. Less work for the bigger machine. I own a 6 cyl. pick up truck. Empty the gas mileage is better. Loaded down I would be better off with an 8 cyl. and the 8 cyl. would last longer. The price difference is nothing in the grander scheme of things.

[Bruce Page]

Mark, can you elaborate on “I even read one opinion in a safety article where the author believed 5hp was too much power to use safely without a power feeder.”
I don’t understand how increasing horse power to a table saw decreases the safety factor.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, as I posted previously I reccomend the General.

I have the 3 HP version, and I have measured the current on the motor when ripping 8/4 white oak, the saw was well below the 12.5 ampere full load rating. (The 3 HP General will run on a 15A circuit due to the high efficiency/high power factor motor).

I've run mine with a feeder making flooring, and it just purrs along. There's a reason it's so popular in industrial settings.

Regards, Rod.

[Mark Vedder]

Mark, can you elaborate on “I even read one opinion in a safety article where the author believed 5hp was too much power to use safely without a power feeder.”
I don’t understand how increasing horse power to a table saw decreases the safety factor.

The comment took me a bit off guard as well. It was in the 1998 article Lowering the Odds, which in general appears to be a decent article on TS safety. The full quote is:

How much horsepower is enough? It really depends on what you are doing. If you are ripping 3” thick lumber all day long, then 5-7 HP is required. With HP in this category, a power feed is also required. There is no way that you can shove a 3” thick board past a blade with that kind of HP without taking a big chance. The odds are against. it. A power feed makes it safe and sane, but not quite as convenient.

For more general work, I find that 3 HP is plenty. This is just on the verge of being too much to handle. ...

Unfortunately the author (Howard Lewin) does not elaborate on the topic more than that. Like I said, it took me a little off guard. It is almost as if he is implying the higher power would make it hard to control the stock But that's just my interpretation in an attempt to make sense out of the comment.

[Bruce Page]

Thanks Mark. It sounds like it’s not the horse power, but what you might do with it. So, if you’re going to “shove a 3” thick board past a blade”, using a power feeder would enhance safety.
I agree with that.

BTW, welcome to SMC.

[Mark Vedder]

Hi Bruce,

Your interpretation makes sense. Still, the comments:
- "With HP in this category [5-7HP], a power feed is also required." and
- "3 HP ... is just on the verge of being too much to handle"
still make me wonder a bit.

[Scot Ferraro]

I think that you would be happy with any of these options once set up and tuned. However, for my money I would opt for the General. I own a General 350 that I just retrofitted with the riving knife and I cannot be happier with the saw. It is over-engineered and has a lot of big beefy parts and cast iron -- it will cut day in and day out and outlast me for sure. Add an overhead balde guard with dust collection (like an Excalibur) and you will have a great cutting system. I really like the 3 hp Baldor motor and I have never had it stall or bog down and it runs efficiently and is cool, even after long sawing sessions. You can order the machine with 5 hp and if you are cutting a lot of 12/4 then this might be a good option, but 3 hp has never let me down. I like the fact that the extension wings are factory installed and arrived perfectly flat to the main saw table out of the crate. I like that General uses a special process to cure its iron to ensure that it remains flat and that it does not warp. I even like the miter gauge that came with the saw (it is big and made out of cast iron too). I like it so much that I am considering ordering another one to use with special jigs. I have an Incra, but honestly I use the original stock gauge for several of my cuts -- it is really solid and it is not an after thought. When I installed the retrofit kit I had to take the table off and put it back on. I was able to get the blade parallel to the blade slot to within .000" (I can only see .001" on my gauge but the needle stayed at 0) -- and it will hold its setting.

Good luck with your decision.

Scot

[Paul Ryan]

Bruce,

I own a SS PCS but I voted for th PM2000 based on your criteria. The big one was VALUE. Right now ,out of those 4, I don't think there is a better value than a PM2000. However if you want all of those qualities and the added safty of the SS then I would go with the SS. But the sawstop is still going to run you $700-2500 more than the general or the mustard. If you will always wonder "what if" when thinking about saftey than I thing it is a no brainer. But if you are looking for a long lasting, super accurate, and best value then I think it should go Steel City, PM, General, SawStop, and Grizzly.

I bought the SS due to some pressure from my wife and knowing that I was fortunate enough to be able to afford it right now. And knowing I would kick my self forever if I didn't spend the money and some accident did happen.