dust collection thoughts for a one man hobbyist...

[glenn bradley]

I'm a "one man hobbyist" and have the small Delta Eric shows. I thought I would roll it from machine to machine but that quickly became more of a time-killer than my already slim shoptime budget would allow. I added a fabric filter to finally stop the fine dust from settling everywhere including my lungs.

I hooked some wyes and blastgates into a sort of manifold for semi-permenant hoses and used it that way for years. Now it serves the jointer and planer exclusively and a 2HP cyclone takes care of the rest. I also have an ambient cleaner. All added up, the cost wasn't near what I would pay to keep my health.

[David Hostetler]

There are more than a few guys that are running the little green HF 1HP portable DCs fitted with a micron or better canister filter.

I would give the folks at Wynn Environmental a call to see how to fit one, but I suspect it would take using a jumper hose and making an adapter collar for one of their HEPA rated filters.

A pre separator is very important with this style of DC though as the bag that does the filtering, is also where the waste goes... NOT a good solution. A better bet is a smallish vertical DC. How short is the shelf you need to go under?

[Bill Blackburn]

Go to craigslist.org and buy used. I got a Jet 1.5, with canister and remote, for @ $180.00. I also got a JDS 750ER for $125.00.

I'm sure HF would work... but for how long? Buy quality, even if it's used.

Okay - then I'd second getting the HF
It outlasted my first Jet AND Delta AND the guy who has it today is running on year #7 or #8. Been so long ago I can't even remember now.
Has a warranty if new. Good buys used can be had if one searches and sounds to me like you scored one - good for you. That was a lot more new and 2x the HF so I'd expect it to be solid myself if in decent shape.

I was leery of the HF, spent the extra $19 to buy an extended warranty even. The total was about $148 ish with tax back then for the devil.

I'd take the HF any day over anything new under $200 out there. Just my .02 but proof was in the pudding to me. The HF pudding was pretty tasty in this case

[Nathan Callender]

Not really related to this thread, but the thing I've found with Harbor Freight is that it's a mixed bag. Some stuff is awesome, some is junk. But, I don't the great/junk ratio is very different from Lowes, Home Depot, Sears, etc. The only thing that saves them is that people can walk in and actually look at the stuff. (I don't have a HF near by, but if I did, I'd go there first).

[Mark P. Brown]

Best system I have seen in a small shop was a 3X6 plastic storage building sold at all of the borgs. A hole was sawn through the wall into the storage building electric was set inside the shop so it was not required to go out to start and stop the DC. The building was lined with 1 1/2" styrofoam. From a few feet away the the dust collector could not be heard. The 1 micron bag works here as it is not venting back into the shop.
Mark

[Tom Adger]

Nathan, what kind of tools are you going to be hooking up to? I suggest you go to Clearvue's website, and check out their cyclones. I have the mini CV hooked to a 20 gal craftsman shopvac, and it is very effective, even on my jointer and planer.

[glenn bradley]

I am a one man hobbyist. I run a tablesaw, router table, jointer, drill press(es), bandsaw(s), planer, various fixed and electric hand sanders. Over a few years I have ended up with a satisfactory setup (so far ).

I have a 2HP cyclone for the upper and lower collection points on the TS, RT and larger BS. I have a bag-type DC for the jointer and planer upgraded with a large fabric filter and a solid lower bag. The DP's, spindle sander, disc/belt, small BS and various ROS, routers and all that use one of two shop vacs with remote switches and all that stuff. I also have a shop made ambient air cleaner with a 1350 CFM gable fan for air movement through two layers of 20" x 20" filtering.

Had I bought all this stuff in the first place I would have saved about 40% on all the cheap stuff I tried to get by with . Such a familiar story and so often repeated on forum after forum . . . . Just kidding! Your DC needs will grow with your variety of tools and projects. Have fun outfitting your shop.

[Edwin Bennett]

Hi Nate,
In addition to a Jet 650 DC that I attach to my machines, I've made myself a poor mans air cleaner using a 20" fan, a couple of 20"x20" furnace filters and duct tape. Seems to work well.
The arrangement consists of a stack up in the following order - normal (coarse and low cost) furnace filter, 1 micron filter (more expensive), and fan pulling air through the filters with duct tape holding everything together. The 1st filter is an ordinary run of the mill furnace filter for larger particles, and the 2nd filter is a 1 micron filter for the fines. Placing the 1 micron filter second after the ordinary furnace filter in the air flow avoids loading the 1 micron filter with larger and more prevalent particles.
Its advantage is being able to move it around and being able to put it near the source of dust such as from sanding or spraying.

[David Hostetler]

Hey all - I've spent some time trying to get my head around dust collection, and here's my situation. First, I've read as much online as possible (bill's site, phil's site, etc). I'm just starting out with larger power tools, in my 2 car garage that we still want to park inside :-), and I want to make sure I get off on the right foot as I'm starting a few rather largish projects, but this is strictly a hobby for me on the weekends, nothing more.

I'd love a large cyclone, but the truth of the matter is that something smaller would work better in my space. Overall, here are my requirements:

1. small, roll-around unit that I can hook up to one machine at a time (table saw, planer, router)

2. it will have to store under some shelves (so the vertical units will probably not work)

3. I want something that filters down to 0.3m if possible. From what I've read, even 1m is too large

4. I need something that will get the majority of fines from the table saw. It's a ridgid 3660 and from the looks of it, it has a dust shield surrounding the blade below, but I may have to build something to seal that up a little more. The blade guard doesn't have a port, but it should be easy to add. I've got a ridgid planer that has an internal exhaust fan to a 4" port, so I'm not as worried about that.

5. I just bought a bunch of stuff, and I'd like to spend not a great deal of money on this - after these few large projects, I may be in the 'shop' for 2-3 days a month. If I start doing more, I don't mind upgrading, to get the more convenient features...

6. It needs to be quiet-ish. I thought about just using a shop vac, and even with the low airflow, the noise would not be condusive to an enjoyable environments (ie, the neighbors will shoot me...)

I work with the garage door up, and regularly try to clean up and blow out the garage with a shop vac. I also use an n95 respirator whenever (and after) I make any dust. I'm going to upgrade the filters to n100 though just to be on the safe side. (Personally, I don't mind wearing a respirator even though I look a little dorky :-) )

So, there's a little 1hp (green) harbor freight unit that may fit the bill. I'd need to find a better bag. Would this work for what I need (if I do some duct work on the machines)? Also, where could I find a better 0.3m bag for it? There used to be a machine similar to that from HF rated at 1.5hp which seems like a better fit, but I can't find it on their site any more.

Any other setups you guys can suggest that may work for me? I've searched the forums and really can't find a whole lot about the effectiveness of these little machines for occasional 1 macine use.

As I understand what you are asking for, you want a smallish (exactly how small was not discussed) DC that you can move around, and hook directly up machine to machine. You are also concerned about ultra fine filtration. There is debate as they say, well above my pay grade, as to what filtration level actually works. I believe an independently verified 1 micron filtration filter or bag is FAR superior to a "Trust us, this really does filter down to .3 microns" filter or bag.

The whole point behind dust collection is to get the dust before it gets into the ambient air and in turn into your lungs right? To do this you need...
#1. Sufficient airflow, I.E. CFM.
#2. Sufficient force behind that airflow. I.E. static lift.
#3. Sufficient filtration at the end so as to keep the dust you just picked up from being pumped back into the air and spread even faster...

If Bill Pentz' charts and discussions are to be believed then a small 1HP portable unit is worse than just relying on a respirator. I am not sure I am totally in sync with Bill, but that is mostly because the volumes of data he presents tends to make my head hurt.

I personally think, as a MINIMUM a 1.5 / 2.0 HP machine like a HF 97869 or Steel City 1.5 HP DC is a good starting point, to that add a good quality cartridge filter. And in order to keep that cartridge from getting plugged almost instantly, you will want a separator of some sort. Bill Pentz suggests a Neutral vane, I personally have found Phil Thien's baffle design to be amazingly effective. If you can deal with moving two pieces about, try a Thien trash can separator...

Now having said that, if I recall correctly overall height was a concern of yours. I know my HF DC with Wynn cartridge is CONSIDERABLY shorter than when fitted with the bag. I think overall it is 4' 6" tall or so... It fits under a shelf in my garage no problem.

I have as have a lot of folks here, done the box fan fitted with an allergen filter (20x20x1), sealed around the intake side of the fan with duct tape, and ALL entry points for errant aiir sealed up. Not a perfect solution, but kick that thing on when I leave the shop, let it run for an hour or so and come back not worrying about dust lingering in the air....

[David Reed]

I am planning to install rigid 4" PVC pipe for my main lines to reduce turbulence in the lines. Looking at the blast gates and other useful fittings it appears they are all suited more for the flex hose. Is this the case and have people merely used duct tape and screws or is there a better means of connection?
Thanks
David

[Peter Aeschliman]

I bought a Grizzly 3hp double bagger that I have modified with "internal" thein baffles.

By internal, I mean I built the separator baffles inside of the round, cylindrical metal sections where the bags attach. I replaced the bottom cloth bags with impermeable plastic bags and replaced the top bags with Wynn cartridge filters. I'm still working on my ducting, so I haven't had a chance to test it out.

Nathan, the reason I mention this is that the pre-separator via a trash can will add to your DC's footprint and make the mobility of it more cumbersome. The advantage of my setup is that it doesn't add anything to the size of my DC's footprint. The obvious disadvantage is that this isn't a "pre separator"... it's just a separator. By that I mean that all material sucked into your ducting will hit your impeller because the course media will not be separated prior to coming into the DC. So my unit will never be used to vacuum the floor- there is a real danger of sucking up something metal, causing a spark that smolders in your saw dust. Vaccuuming is the job for my shopvac with a HEPA filter on it.

In your case, I'd recommend just going with 1HP bag unit. Build the thien baffle into the DC as I mentioned, replace your bottom bag with a clear plastic one (most 1hp models have the cartidge filter versions, which come with plastic bottom bags- just order those from your manufacturer) and find a .3 micron top bag.

I would recommend the wynn filters, but those work against your objectives in 2 ways:

1) They ain't cheap (you get what you pay for!)
2) They won't collapse like a top bag will. Meaning that a bag on the top will increase your DC's storability because you can let it collapse for storage

I have a 1hp Jet DC in my shop still. I haven't finished my Grizzly DC installation yet, so in the meantime, I've been rolling the 1hp unit around to my planer and jointer while I work on a small project for my father. You know what, it works great. I know Bill is super scientific about everything, and his idea is that small motors and 4" ducts don't do an adequate job of getting the harmful invisible dust, but my 1hp unit collects all of the chips without any problems and I can't see any fine dust floating around.

The thing that makes my 1hp unit work so well on my jointer and planer is that the dust ports on the machines are inherently well designed (as is the case on all most all jointers and planers). They are close to the blade and suck the dust as close to the cut as possible. You will have problems at the table saw no matter how good your DC is unless you build in over and under table collection that is as close to the blade as possible.

If you wear a respirator, open your garage door, build your own air filtration system (lots of DIY's on this forum- do a search), and get a 1hp DC with a thein separator built in, I think you'll be pleased.

Good luck!

[glenn bradley]

I am planning to install rigid 4" PVC pipe for my main lines to reduce turbulence in the lines. Looking at the blast gates and other useful fittings it appears they are all suited more for the flex hose. Is this the case and have people merely used duct tape and screws or is there a better means of connection?
Thanks
David

PVC 6x6x4 wyes. I cut a piece of 4" Coex Solid (co-extruded; white on the outside, black and soft on the inside) pipe and slipped it (actually tapped it in with a mallet) inside the 4" part of the wye. A plastic blast gate then slipped inside of that "collar" nice and tight.

After a couple of weeks it had not loosened at all but, being the way I am I put a screw in through the side anyway. I sized the screw to fall just short of piercing the inside wall as I didn't want anything in there for stuff to hang up on.

As to other useful fittings, the only things not PVC are the blast gates on my setup. For elbows I use a pair of 45* to make the curve gentler, for wyes I use those shown and 6x6x6. The end caps at the cleanout points are standard PVC as well.

These are the feeds to my TS and RT lower fittings:

[Nathan Callender]

Thanks Peter - that's what I ultimately went with - a 1ph unit. After I finish my current project, I'm going to modify it to have a separator and cartridge filter on it, and hopefully still get it pretty small. I'll post pictures when I have it built, but I'm getting close on finishing the major aspects of the design. As a side not, the DC works well with the planer, but the TS is not cooperating, so tomorrow I'm enclosing its base and hopefully that will make it better, although I need to add a hose to the splitter/guard on top.

I still wear a respirator, so this isn't too big of a concern but I'd like to not have the entire garage coated in fine dust all the time. :-)

[David Keller NC]

Nathan - A couple of comments and a question. You said in an earlier post that you were concerned that a chip could go through the impeller and out of the unit. If I understand what you did correctly, you simply removed an infeed and outfeed screen from the blower. If that's correct and all of the exhaust from the unit is going through the bag and out to the shop, that shouldn't be a concern. The chip's inertia will be substantially dropped by going through the impeller, so it's very unlikely that it will go through the bag.

OK - this will be a bit of heresy from the way that most folks set up their DC, but I'm going to suggest that you really don't need a respirator, nor do you really need the 0.3 micron bag - under certain conditions. Mainly, that condition is that you don't use the DC as a sanding dust collector. While true that a table saw, jointer and planer will generate a very small amount of fine dust, it's miniscule compared to the total volume of wood waste.

One difficulty you've probably encountered is that single-bag units have reduced airflow as they fill up with chips. While an improvised cyclone might seem like a good solution, the problem is that most cyclones done on a budget don't seal perfectly, so the already anemic airflow you're getting from your small unit will be reduced further. Because of your foot-print considerations, my suggestion is that you sell the horizontal unit and buy a standard, 2-bag unit (not the ones that have a HEPA outflow - they substantially increase the cost and cut down on the total flow).

The advantage to a 2-bag unit is that the lower bag fills with chips, but the upper bag continues to allow the same airflow that it did when it was empty. While a cyclone does make things a little more convenient, because you need a very small one, you will likely find that you're emptying it just as often as you'd empty the lower bag on a 2-bag unit, so the maintenance is about the same. In fact, it might be more maintenance because the cyclone to fit in your available space may be smaller than the 2-bag unit's lower bag.

Regarding fine dust - if you do a lot of sanding, this is an area to collect such dust separately. The original DC 2-bag units weren't really designed for sanding dust. If you think about it, sanding has different DC issues than planers/table saws/jointers and routers. The volume of sanding dust is quite small, so capacity isn't really a concern, but the particles are extremely fine, so high efficiency filtration is necessary. For the rest of the machines, the challenge is diametrically opposed to sanding - really fine filtration isn't necessary, but high airflow and chip capacity is a concern.

Manufacturers have tried to build one unit that takes care of both situations - HEPA outflow filtration for fine particle dust, and cyclones for high capacity chip collection.

But on a budget, you can separate these two tasks and save a great deal of money - buy a 2-bag unit for your chip collection requirements, and leave a 2 to 5 micron bag on it for high airflow. Then get a shop vacuum equipped with a HEPA outflow cartridge for sanding - the airflow can be relatively modest, and the capacity small, so the unit will be small and easy to maneuver and handle. Personally, I think quite a lot of the Craftsman series of shop-vacs, and accessory HEPA cartridges are available for all but the tiniest of them. Also, because the volume of sanding dust is quite small, you can equip the shop vacuum with a paper internal bag (and use the internal HEPA for outflow). When the bag's full, you simply open the cannister and throw it away, so you never have to open the fine dust container.

The combination of these two strategies has been in use in my shop for years, and it's very effective. Very, very little dust accumulates on the horizontal surfaces in my shop - about the same rate as regular household dust, and the footprint on this combination is quite small. Better yet, you've a shop vac to use in case of a wet spill in the house, something to vacuum the cars out with, and you can even use it as an "air cleaner" by running it while other machines are in operation.

[Billy Chambless]

Connected issue here - What about those mufflers they sell for the exhaust on shop vacs. They just plug into the outlet port like a hose and can use various filters (dust suppression) and are supposed to drastically reduce the noise. Has anybody used one of these?

I have one on my 12 gallon Ridgid and it helps a lot -- actually brings the sound level down to the "hearing protection optional" range.