16 inch Crescent Jointer

[David DeCristoforo]

"To reply to Frank Lizek...I believe is belt driven."

If it is belt driven, swapping the motor out should be easy.

Tell you what. You bring this thing to my shop and I'll trade you straight across for my DJ20....

[Joe Jensen]

Rick, that's not correct. I have a Kay Industries Phasemaster, model MA-2. With it, I can run my 10HP 20" Jointer/Planer, my 5.5HP Dust Collector, and my 3HP Horizontal Edge Sander, all at the same time. (I just can't start more than (a combined or individual) 10HP at once, as in via the same switch. I could, for instance, start both the DC and Sander at the same time though)

Todd

Todd, I'm not familiar with the Kay Industries converters, but many like Temco have tables to tell you how much you hav to upsize for various loads. They typically show 4 load levels. Jointers are shown as level 2. Hard to imagine a real world load easier to start than a level 2, but that's what they say. Anyway, they say if you have a 5HP level 2 load, you need to buy their 7.5HP converter. On the other hand, some converter companies sell a 5HP converter that will start all 5HP loads. Apparently, the frame size of the idler motor is a good way to validate 5HP claims. An Arco 20HP converter weights 420lbs, and a Temco 20HP weights 240lbs. That 20HP Tempco is only rated for 20HP of "Easy Load". For a "Hard Load" it is only rate for 10HP.

So, apparently rotary phase converters do not have a very standard rating system, and many "optimistically" rate them.

[Alan DuBoff]

Rick, that's not correct. I have a Kay Industries Phasemaster, model MA-2. With it, I can run my 10HP 20" Jointer/Planer, my 5.5HP Dust Collector, and my 3HP Horizontal Edge Sander, all at the same time. (I just can't start more than (a combined or individual) 10HP at once, as in via the same switch. I could, for instance, start both the DC and Sander at the same time though)

Todd

That is not totally correct. Some machines require 50% more power to start, like band saws, and lathes, as an example. They need to spin up, and require more power. How much can be started on the RPC is dependent on the machine being started and the size of the RPC.

I see everyone is quick to jump on the OP about his electrician not knowing what an RPC is. You do not know what the conversation went like, so most people on the internet are just back seat drivers. Most of those back seat drivers charge what they are worth, so to the OP, try to weed out the good information from the back seat driving.

[Todd Burch]

That is not totally correct.

What I said was totally correct, thank you very much. The OP made a blanket statement which was wrong. I pointed out my situation which proved to the OP his blanket statement was incorrect. I did not speak for every product on the market.

Todd

[Joe Jensen]

What I said was totally correct, thank you very much. The OP made a blanket statement which was wrong. I pointed out my situation which proved to the OP his blanket statement was incorrect. I did not speak for every product on the market.

Todd

Not really. In his post about Rotary Converters Rick said twice "most". He did not make a blanket statement. Here is a cut and past from your supplier's own website. Here they clearly state that you need to buy a bigger than 5HP converter to start a 5HP motor. Arco for example, rates their converters such that a 5HP rated coverter will start a 5HP motor. This is the kind of thing Rick pointed out when he said most. Temco is one examble, and now thanks to your post we know that Key Industrries is another. Thanks for pointing this out.

How To Use Phasemaster® Converter
Sizing and Selection Tables.

A phase converter carries two ratings. The first and most important rating is the Largest Motor HP that the converter can start. This can be a single motor or a combination of motors. For example, starting one 10 HP motor is the same as starting two 5 HP motors at the same time. A 10 HP converter is the proper size in this case.
The second rating is the Maximum or Total HPthat operates simultaneously but does not start together. As a rule, a Type MA Phasemaster® converter can run a total of 3 times as many HP as it can start. A 15 HP, a 10 HP and a 5 HP motor (totaling 30 HP) that start separately but run together could run on a 15HP converter. The largest motor to be started is 15HP and the maximum load does not exceed 45HP.

[Todd Burch]

You guys are correct - I was mistaken. Rick F., not the OP, did say most. Thanks for tactfully pointing this out.

Todd

[Dave Bureau]

I've got a Cresent 16" jointer. If its belt driven just put a 5 hp single phase motor on and be done. thats what I did. I poured new babbits and installed new blades and it works like a champ.
Dave: I also got a DJ20 and wouldnt swap the cresent for 2 of those. Not that the DJ20 is a bad jointer.(I love mine)but you cant compare 16" to 8.
I say fix the cresent.

[Dave Bureau]

here are some photos:

[Rick Lizek]

Factorymation sells a 7.5 hp VFD that will run a 5 hp motor for $430. Don't think you will beat their price or service. I've bought 4 VFD's in the last 6 months from them. The VFD is cheaper than changing a motor and modifying the switch.
the only thing cheaper is a static converter which at producing 2/3 the rated hp is still going to have more than enough power for that machine.
http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.5566/.f

[Carroll Courtney]

Rod,I too agree with others.As you can see in the pics of mine 12" 1969 Crescent Jointer you can run 3phase equipment in your shop.My Rotory Phase converter is home made and cost around 50-75 dollars,I pick up the slave motor used, off of CL.I do a/c work so some of the items were free or at cost.To learn more on VFD's and phase converters to to www.practicalmachinist.com Rebuilding the jointer is fun and alot of work,like others you can go to www.owwm.org to learn about the jointer itself.16" is HUGE, and you got it free so why not restore and get you a phase converter.Good luck and post some pics---Carroll

[Rod Howell]

You guys have been a great help. Now that I have more info and know more about what questions to ask, I'm very much leaning toward keeping the thing.

This is my first experience with an internet forum of any sort....am amazed at the resources out there.

[Philip Johnson]

I happened to be looking thru a new Grizzly catalog they had the VFD's for 200 to 300 the rotary ones were much more and also had a line of motors that may work, pretty reasonable priced

[Rick Lizek]

I happened to be looking thru a new Grizzly catalog they had the VFD's for 200 to 300 the rotary ones were much more and also had a line of motors that may work, pretty reasonable priced

I think you are confusing the static with the VFD. Grizzly doesn't carry VFD's They do have a bandsaw with a VFD to be able to use it on metal or wood.

See page 2 on making your rotary with a static converter
http://www.phase-a-matic.com/PDF/SIS-2009.pdf


These are VFD's. There is more to the description than what you read to properly size them.
http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/sc...egory.15367/.f

[Alan DuBoff]

You guys are correct - I was mistaken. Rick F., not the OP, did say most. Thanks for tactfully pointing this out.

Todd

Rick had it right. Most all RPC vendors recommend using an RPC that is 50% larger than the largest motor you will be starting. I use a 7.5HP RPC and the largest motor I have is 5HP.

You can start the same amount of HP in *some* cases, all depends on the type of motor/machine. As I said, band saws and lathes are two that require an RPC that is 50% bigger.

I can probably start my 5HP table saw on a 5HP RPC, but no worries for me as I have a 7.5HP RPC and can start ANY 5HP motor, band saws and lathes included. It's all relative...if your happy with your machines and RPC, that's what counts, no worries of me raining on your parade.

[Andy Bardowell]

Rod does your friend have a phase converter?