References for building indoor doors?

[Charles Davis]

I'm thinking about building indoor doors for my home out of walnut. I searched here and on amazon for information/books related to this... amazon has a couple books that may be helpful but I'm wondering if members here may have suggestions for references that would be helpful in the design and build.

The one immediate decision on my mind right now is whether to make all doors the same design or each one different... the simplicity of repetitive building versus the enjoyment of trying different designs... course, I guess visually a consistent design would be safer in terms of resale of my home down the road... but where's the fun in that...

Thanks in advance for any thoughts shared!
Charles

[Frank Drew]

Charles,

I assume most of the doors will be similarly sized, so you can vary details such as panels and moulding while still not losing the advantages of mass production in making the frame parts and joints. I think doors that obviously showed that they'd been custom made would be a great feature.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

The Eclectic look only works if the definition of Eclectic is adhered to and not bastardized as so many do.

It means the very finest of a wide variety. Sadly most people use it to describe a hodge podge of accumulated unrelated junk that at some point in their life suited their fancy - - the correct expression for which is "Trash" I believe.

Sam Maloof's home seems to be more along the lines of eclectic. As does the Merriweather Post, Hillwood Estate, Museum & Gardens in DC which was her home but is now a museum jam packed with a truly eclectic (if not a bit loud and overwhelming) collection of everything Russian objects d'art which Ms Post collected after the Fall of the Czar.

All this by way of cautioning you against indulging in design flourishes, any of which standing alone might be nice but, standing next to each other - - and surrounded by the rest of your decor furniture etc., might tend to look odd or out of place. So take care to get the whole look to flow together.

[Brad Shipton]

First thing I would ask is how many doors are you building? I too thought this, and now after about ten doors its starting to wear me down. Hopefully you dont end up making matching closet doors like I am. My project just never seems to end and I am the only one to blame.

The next thought, is why? If you think you will save $$, I wouldnt bet on it unless you are set on a very unique design that would cost a lot if it were built in a production shop. If its for the fun of it and to say you built them yourself, great.

You probably will not find many great books, but you can find all the info you need on the woodweb and right here.

Brad

[Charles Davis]

Cliff, I think you're right... I was just thinking that if I go with varying designs I'm committing myself to more of an artsy path that I would really know how to make my home work with the designs... I guess it doesn't quite make sense to design a home and interior to match the doors... lol... so, I will be going with the same design throughout. A traditional frame and panel assembly in solid walnut... maybe with ebony(or ebonized) pegs to dress it up.

Brad, I will be doing 10-12 doors. I'm in no rush. One of the primary reasons I've gotten in to woodworking is to upgrade my home... right now I have poorly fitting contractor-painted white doors so the difference would be dramatic... I love the look of walnut with a Maloof finish. I think this upgrade will give some personalized character to my home. Then I plan on doing some built-ins for my closets... again I don't plan on knocking this stuff out in a month or two... timeline is over a couple years... I picked up 140BF of walnut off Craigslist to get me started... certainly couldn't afford to purchase all the lumber at once.

Hopefully Walnut will be a stable enough material for a door (and not binding with the seasons). I thought it was more stable than where it was placed in this chart:
http://internetlumber.projectthunder...lity_chart.jpg

chart is from: http://www.highlandhardwoods.com/chart.html

[Peter Quinn]

The two most practical references I can think of are both out of print but can be had through Amazon used which is where I bought my copies. Look for "Make your own Hand Crafted Doors by John Birchard" and "Building Doors and Gates by Alan and Gill Bridgewater". Both are excellent resources. The Blanchard book is more about the mechanics of building a door, with techniques ranging from hand tools to production shapers. The Bridgewater book covers construction details but offers considerable design information. There is also some information about door construction and jamb construction in "Modern Practical Joinery by George Ellis", which is an excellent historical resource for any wood worker interested in high end millwork. David Marks also had several episodes covering the subject that I think can now be viewed on line, one on passage doors, another on exterior gates which are essentially the same process. Look for those too.

As Glen noted the creek is also an excellent resource for asking specific questions as you go through the door making process. I am a journeyman in a cabinet and millwork shop, and I have spent most of the last four years in the passage door department, so I may be able to help a bit. I can think of at least 12 highly skilled craftsman here at the creek off the top of my head, both professional and amateur, that have considerable experience making doors. I'm sure that number is actually much higher. That will offer a lot of different ideas and perspectives.

As far as a different door for each opening? It really depends on your home, but generally I prefer to keep most of the bedroom and closet doors of similar design for consistency. Too many vastly different styles and it may start to look like a design show room more than a cohesive home. I do like to off set a few rooms with interesting doors. I just hung a figured cherry door on the bathroom, I have plans for a quarter sawn 8 lite door with a raised bottom panel for the study, and interesting entry ways are always a good call.

Keep in mind walnut (american black walnut) is one of the most difficult species to source in 8/4 stock suited for door making, so you may want to look for the wood first, or consider a solid wood lamination or veneer with engineered core approach. At the very least make sure you can get enough material for stiles to complete your project. Rails are a bit easier.

A little general advice? Make one practice door from something cheap like poplar or ash, start to finish, before committing your actual stock to the machines. That will give your lumber time to acclimate and you a chance to work out the production process that best suits your shop in a low pressure low cost situation.

[Charles Davis]

Also with regards to cost... I haven't done a lot of searching around just yet, but it seems that solid walnut doors start in the $300 range... Walnut runs 6/bdft by me (for 4/4)... I'll need about 30 bdft/door so material is about $180... just round it up to $200. Saving about $100 a door isn't bad.

[Charles Davis]

Thanks Peter for your helpful thoughts and suggestions. The "Building Doors and Gates" book is one of the books on Amazon that I plan on getting. I'll definitely check out the other sources you've mentioned.

My local lumber supplier carries 8/4 walnut but what you stated about it being hard to come by probably explains why it's double the cost of 4/4 per board foot. I had planned on laminating 4/4 because of that... one upside of that is perhaps a more stable door overall with the lamination... I realize qtr-sawn would be the best material but that will get real pricey I imagine.

Good advice on the practice door... I think I'll start will a small mock-up in poplar. Then my first door in walnut will be a smaller linen closet door where it's width is only 18".

Looking forward to this project and will certainly have more questions as I start and progress through this... appreciate your sharing of knowledge!

Ohhh one question I have... and I know this will come down to personal preference, but I'd still like to hear your thoughts... what do you think about the inclusion of sapwood in the door? I really don't mind sapwood, especially with walnut. It's hard for me to imagine it though in a door for some reason. I think I would like it, not to mention the cost savings of using the full boards that I have which have a fair amount of it.

Thanks,
Charles

[Charles Davis]

Hmmmm... I do have a bunch of 8/4 padauk and purpleheart and they are both super-stable... anyone have a problem with purple and orange doors?

[Peter Quinn]

I've had poor results with walnut sapwood. Last set of walnut doors I made was almost two years ago during a relatively dry period in the fall. I made 7 doors, M&T, 80" heights, various widths, several pairs for closets. The order was for no sap, no knots, no inclusions. I dug through 1200BF of 8/4 trying to find stiles for 7 doors. That hurt! My boss has a hard wood retail outfit that is well stocked and I got first crack at several new packs of walnut. I came up several stiles short, so it was agreed with the client I could run some limited sap on the B faces of the closet pairs. Every one of those sappy stiles moved through out the milling/shaping process to the point that they could not be used for pairs any way and had eventually to be replaced. Every other stile stayed rock stable, no issues.

Do I like walnut sapwood? Yes, I love to show a sao edge on a table top, or a furniture leg, or anything where stability isn't critical. A table leg twists a bit, who cares? Who is going to notice movement on an object that gives no reference? But for frame and panel doors that have to fit a jamb and close against a stop, sap wood scares me.

Also, for raised panel doors, typical 2'8"X80" opening, we figure 40BF per door PLUS jamb material if required. Thats 32"X80"X2"/144, which gives you 36BF, add 10% minimum waste factor from rough lumber, perhaps more with walnut if you are cutting around knots and sap. Same calculation for 1 3/8" or 1 3/4" doors. Its pretty hard to get 1 3/8" from 6/4, tempting as it may be. Our walnut raised panels are often laminated even if the frames are solid stock.

Purple and orange doors? Maybe. Real question is how much are you willing to spend on the hardware it will take to swing a solid Padauk door, and can the framing in your house handle the weight?

[Charles Davis]

Yeah, I think I'd rather be waterboarded than dig through 1200BF...

Nice job picking up on the fact that I was going to attempt to skip by with 6/4 and destroying that delusion... lol... I knew that it would be ridiculous... set planer at 1/128 cut and make one million passes hoping I can pull it off.

Ugghh, sorry to hear about the sapwood instability... I'm still tempted to try it... I love the creamy contrast to the heartwood. Maybe I'll just do the small linen closet first with sapwood and see how it behaves into this winter.

The jamb was a question in the back of my mind that I knew I would have to research and I'm sure the books will speak to... not sure if it should be replaced with walnut as well? Do I then replace the base moldings in the room too? And then perhaps reframe the house in Walnut?

[Charles Davis]

Here's a couple pics of the particular door that "inspired" me to take on this project. It's the bathroom door that I get to gaze upon while sitting on the throne. At least every time I look at it, it seems to nauseate me a bit and help move things along.

Isn't the gap at the bottom just perfect? It is convenient in that sometimes I just crawl under the door instead of opening it. It's a feature.

[Peter Quinn]

Charles, I am LOL big time. I just replaced my bathroom door with a beautiful cherry door, I had that same Masonite 6 panel POS, same lever, AND I had that same giant gap under the door. I was motivated to replace the door when my two year old started flicking half chewed grapes under the door and one landed on my foot while on the throne! I find the new door puts me in a relaxed state which is more conducive to the business at hand, the old one made me clench up and grimace every time I looked at it.

Hey, as far as 6/4, you might get away with it for 1 3/8" rails, possible even for mullions (mid stiles in a 6 panel door) if it is a heavy 6/4 and fairly flat to begin with. Nearly impossible for 80" stiles though. You could use laminated stiles and solid 6/4 stock for the rails too if you find good 6/4 material. If your trim is paint grade now I think stain grade doors in a painted jamb look great.

[Charles Davis]

LMAO at the half eaten grapes being tossed under the door and landing on your feet. I'm going to be laughing about that for days! Ohhh man that is too funny...

Never thought a poorly-fitted door could annoy me to this extent. They say don't sweat small the stuff... but sometimes the small stuff just gets under your skin!

In the meantime, before I can replace my lovely POS I might install a sneeze-guard type protector down there to prevent partially eaten fruit from rolling in and breaking my zen-like focus. Haha...

ahhh... good stuff!