New holdfasts

[Thomas Kila]

I would also not be the best person to test and evaluate the first pair.

[Brian Kent]

I'll volunteer to buy and review, but I won;t feel bad if it is someone else.

[Jerome Hanby]

I'm definitely still interested in a pair, but I'm still in the process of building my bench, so I wouldn't be a good test case

[David Gendron]

Don's sound good to me too!
Danny, I used Polyurehane(Gorilla Glue), I wet the leather a little and tape it on the pad of the hold fast. I over size the leather part and after the glue is cured, I trimed it flush to the pad and at the same time I get rid of the squeeze out glue!

[JD Dolan]

Harry,

Me too for a set, if you're up to it.

All best,
J.D.

[Brian Kent]

I'll look forward to Don's review.

As for my own interest (and I assume I speak for a few others too) having a HSHF would be fun and useful, but only if it is something you want to do, in the volume you want to do, and for the price that would be fun for you too.

[Jim Koepke]

Running a trial to see how a production would go is a great idea.

I have never used a hold fast before, so I do not know that my evaluation could be any more than they work great or I don't know how to make them work.

I'd be happy to try though.

jim

[Thomas Kila]

I totally agree with Brian, Harry.

[Richard Dooling]

Been on a little holiday with my wife so I had not seen the direction this thread had taken.

I obviously have too little experience with holdfasts to be a good evaluator and since it sounds like Harry is comfortable with Don, he gets my vote.

[David Keller NC]

Harry - My thought here is that you may have way too many takers at $35 a pair. Regardless of whether you can produce them that cheaply, they are worth more - considerably more. My guess is at least twice that. And there is little need in working for $10 an hour - 40 years of blacksmithing experience is worth a lot more than that. Heck, even horse people will pay a lot more than that for a farrier....

[harry strasil]

LOL, when I used to help my Dad shoe horses back in the 50's we got $15 a horse and furnished the shoes.

I am not gonna get rich, but I am not getting hurt either, just a little extra to supplement SS and I smithed for 55 years before I was forced to retire.

All may not be satisfied, because they aren't real pretty and shiny, just bare bones holdfasts. I have enough iron for 9 pairs to start with and we will go from there, I never liked production work, but making some things is enjoyable. I loved what I did for a living and really miss it. I do small jobs once in awhile just to hear my wife complain about my clothes getting so dirty, and according to my Mother in Law, the only way I could get that dirty was to lay down and roll to work. LOL

[Jim Becker]

Yea, I have the Gramercy hold-fasts and they are wonderful things...they also get used a lot, both for Neander work and non-Neander work. I may buy a couple more someday...

[Don C Peterson]

I had a blast today visiting with Jr. He lives about two hours north of me but I'll report more on the visit as a whole in another thread...this is is about the holdfasts.

I got back from Jr's at around 4:30, just in time to help get the kids cleaned up, fed, and put to bed. After that was taken care of I ran down the the basement and put the holdfasts through their paces. I never really thought about how to review holdfasts but I figured the essential qualities that a holdfast needs is to hold things and be quick and easy to use.

So, here goes.

Here is a picture of the various holdfasts in the dog holes to get a perspective on the various profiles. From front to rear they are:
Gramercy, Strasil, Peterson (small), and Peterson (large)
PICT0333.jpg
You can see here that Jr's holdfast has a smaller shank diameter than the others and is very distinctive in that it is of two piece welded construction. My bench is about 2 and 1/4 inches thick and the dog holes are 3/4"

Obviously, if you have a thinner bench with 3/4" holes the smaller shank will skew in the holes even more. The relationship between holdfast shank diameter, dog hole diameter, and bench thickness is a bit complex to go into here, sufice it to say that in my bench Jr's holdfasts worked just fine.

PICT0328.jpg

Here the holdfasts are just laying on the bench top from top to bottom they are Peterson(large), Strasil, Peterson(small), and Gramercy
PICT0330.jpg

Okay, now for the review: I put used a scrap piece of 3/4" Ash. I used each holdfast to clamp the Ash to the bench and then pushed and pulled to see if there was a discernable advantage in holding power. Obviously, the harder you hit the holdfast the firmer it will hold the work, but if you really whack them I figured I'd either break them or reach their maximum holding power. All of the holdfasts were able to push and pull the whole bench around without letting go. So, while I couldn't determine a "winner" they all did the job.

Now, holdfasts also need to be easy and fast to use. This, in my opinion is where Jr's holdfast really shined. The small shank is the quickest and easiest to place in the dog holes. Mine were the hardest to put in the holes because they fit the tightest in the holes. I, of course could solve this by using slightly smaller stock or reaming out my dog holes a bit. I'll probably just grind down the shank of my holdfasts a bit so I don't waste the holdfasts I've made or have to make a bunch of new bench dogs.

Jr's and mine released about as easily while this is the weakness I see with the Gramercy's. Because the Gramercy's are the stiffest of the holdfasts they don't have as much spring, and tend not to "pop" up out of the holes as much. It was pretty much standard to have to hit the Gramercy holdfasts two to three times before they really released, while Jr's and mine typically released on the first or second hit.

You will notice that my holdfasts are shaped with a sharper and higher gooseneck. This was very intentional because when holding thin stock the Gramercy holdfasts will seat down into the bench enough that it's sometimes hard to hit with a solid shot to the back for release. You can cure this problem by using blocks, but since I was making my own, I cured that problem by changing the profile a bit. Jr. solved that problem by making the back corner a 90 degree corner.

Don't get me wrong, I really do like the Gramercy holdfasts. They work great, but they could be slightly better. If you don't have access to a forge or aren't willing to pay a blacksmith to make you some holdfasts, the Gramercy's are the way to go. Now, Jr. is apparently going into limited production of his holdfasts, and if things don't change it sounds like his are only marginally more expensive than the Grammercy's. If you want my advice, get in on this deal quick, before Jr. changes his mind!

Just to be clear; I'm not going to be competing with either Gramercy or Jr. I liked making mine and I enjoy using them, but I'm not interested in making them for sale... I only included mine for comparison.

[Brian Kent]

Very nice review, Don. If Jr wants to make them, I'd like to buy some. Otherwise I'll get Gramercy's and expect them to work better than my (Rockler?) blue cast irons.

[Thomas Kila]

Thanks for taking the time to do this review, Don. And if Harry is still interested in making a few of 'em, I'm definitely still interested in purchasing a pair.