Difficult (possibly stupid) tablesaw cut

[Michael Panis]

Hi Folks,

The other day I had to make a difficult cut angled cut. Things went fine, but I found myself wondering if there was an easier (or safer) way.

The first picture shows the board after I made the cut. Note that I needed to cut it at a 24 deg angle. If I had tried to cut the board lying flat, I would have needed to cut it at a 66 deg angle, beyond what a tablesaw could handle, so I decided to cut it vertically.

I started with "Plan A" (2nd picture). It basically involved tilting the blade to the 24 deg position, using a sacrificial fence, and a featherboard. I lined up the fence so that just a little bit would be left on the bottom of the board (3rd picture). To increase my safety, I used a clamp riding on the fence to hold the workpiece as I moved it into the cut. (4th picture). The 5th picture shows a close up.

(continued)

[Michael Panis]

The cut went fine even though only a little bit of wood was touching the table once the board went past the blade. But as I got to the end, the pressure on the back of the piece forced the board down the insert. I've exaggerated it in the first picture, but you get the idea. Lucky for me only the workpiece suffered. No fingers lost.

Well, now I had to make the cut again, only this time, since I had removed too much wood, I couldn't hold the piece with the clamp. I tried Plan B (2nd and 3rd pictures).

This involved moving the fence to the left of the blade and making the cut on the top of the workpiece. Luckily, the height (width) of the board was small enough I could do this. Again, I used a sacrificial fence and featherboards (turned upside down).

This cut went well (OK--I burned the wood a little. Time to clean the blade), but it still didn't feel safe. Only the featherboards were holding the workpiece against the fence.

I'm looking for any advice (including You Fool!! What were you thinking???)

Thanks,

---Mike

[Lee Schierer]

That is a cut that can be done on a TS without question. However, I would not do that cut without a zero clearance insert and I would either clamp or attach the sacrificial piece with double sided tape and slide both pieces along the fence as I make the cut. I would also use push sticks to keep my hands well clear of eh exposed blade. I might also use an elevated feather board (makes contanct above the top of the bevel) behind the blade area to hold the outfeed portion tight to the fence. The burn marks in the photo would suggest that your fence is angled slightly toward your blade.

[Chris Kennedy]

I've made a similar vertical cut a couple of times, though I didn't need to cut both sides, and I left more material at the bottom of the cut. The first time, I did pretty much what you did, and after I did it, thought -- never again. My hands were never close to the blade, but it just didn't feel right.

After that, I have attached the stock to another, thicker board (nice 2 by 4) with brads, and then run both through simultaneously. It felt better, but since that project, I have avoided making such cuts.

If someone has a good way, I am all for it.

Cheers,

Chris

[Thomas Knapp]

If you attached the piece to be cut to another board it would give you more surface on the saw. If screws or clamps will not work you can use double stick carpet tape to hold the boards together. Plan b would be to cut the angle cut on a wider piece of stock and then set the blade to 90 deg. and separate the piece you need from the waste.

[Eric DeSilva]

What about using a tenoning jig? Skip the fence totally.

[Michael Panis]

Great idea! I'd still need a sacrificial board between the jig and the workpiece.
Only one problem: I don't own a tenoning jig.

But now I can claim I need one for safety reasons!

I also like the suggestions about attaching the workpiece to another board.

---Mike

[Prashun Patel]

Two ways come to mind:

1) Make a 'fence sled': a u-shaped jig that slips over the fence. Clamp your target piece to the sled, and slide the whole contraption over the saw's fence.

2) Make the cut as a non-thru cut and use a handsaw and plane to remove the cutoff.

either way, I'd definitely use a ZCI; that piece is just BEGGING to shoot down into the throat.

[Chris Kennedy]

Great idea! I'd still need a sacrificial board between the jig and the workpiece.
Only one problem: I don't own a tenoning jig.

But now I can claim I need one for safety reasons!

I also like the suggestions about attaching the workpiece to another board.

---Mike

From the picture, your saw is left-tilt. The tenoning jig will be further to the left. As I sit here at my computer and nowhere near my tablesaw, I don't see this as physically working. The right hand slot will be too far away.

What am I missing?

Cheers,

Chris

[Floyd Mah]

Here's my idea:
Make a sled with a side that is slanted at 24 degrees from vertical. Do this by cutting a 3/4 board at 24 degrees. Use this as the base. Take another board also cut at 24 degrees. Attach this vertically to the first, so that you have a /_ shaped sled. Make the upright board as wide as you need so that you have clamping room. These would take two cuts at 24 degrees, but no higher that 3/4 inch. Clamp your work piece to the slanted board (or glue or screw). Place your saw at 90 degrees and make your cut. If you don't want a piece to drop in the saw insert, just nibble at the edge until you are just cutting the width of a kerf. Or you can use a bandsaw to make your initial approximation and then finish on the table saw.

[Robert Strasser]

I made a tenon jig shown in Woodsmith issue 127. You can buy the plan from Plansnow.com, http://plansnow.com/tenon.html.

I've attached a picture of my version installed on a sliding table saw. The Woodsmith plan is a mirror image of mine for use on a standard cabinet saw.

[Ryan Baker]

Method A works just fine, but it's absolutely necessary to use a zero-clearence insert (or at least tighter clearence than you were using). Attaching it to a carrier board improves the safety a lot and makes it easier to hang onto and feed. The problem with method B is that it gives you the chance of trapping the board between the fence and the blade, setting you up for a nasty kickback.

[Jeff Strickler]

I'm thinking out loud here, having never needed to make such a cut, but couldn't you have made some kind of holder or jig that would have allowed you to make the cut with the workpiece positioned horizontally rather than vertically to the cut, but such that you'd be able to get the angle needed? I understand what you are saying about not being able to accomplish that due to the degree of angle to the cut, which is why I'm thinking out loud that with a jib of some kind -- maybe a couple of wedges cut at an angle for the workpiece to rest against -- you'd have been able to make the cut? When I first saw what you were trying to do, it struck me that a bandsaw might have been the better choice, but that realistically you'd end up with a similar jig, making it irrelevant which saw you used, I think.

Perhaps I'm uncreative, but I think I would have stepped back and asked exactly why I needed such a cut in the first place and whether a compromise could be reached.

Edit: looks like Floyd Mah and I have essentially the same idea.

[David DeCristoforo]

Your cut is not that uncommon. I need to make such cuts frequently and I use a variation of the method described by Shawn, a jig that slips over the fence that the stock is clamped to. On longer cuts I use a jig on my sliding table. Tenon jigs assume that the cut is an "end" cut, not a "long" cut. Of course, having a sliding table makes this even easier. Also you want to be sure that your blade is SHARP and that your stock is "dead straight".

[Jack Ellis]

In addition to the recommendations made by others, I'll be the nanny and suggest you might want to use the saw's blade guard.

I had to rip thin strips a few days ago and flipped my blade guard up to do it, but even with a push shoe that kept my fingers well away from the blade and a blade height that barely exposed teeth through the cut, it was pretty uncomfortable.