1950 hospital maternity bill

[Steve Clardy]

1967, I clipped the end off of my small finger in a drill press incident.
Doc sewed on some skin from my leg, over night stay in the hospital, then I was released.
I remember my folks talking about that $103.00 or so bill, and worrying about how they were going to pay for it.

[Scott Shepherd]

Someone's got to pay for any new plans coming down the pike. Do that at the expense of small business owners and you'll find the unemployment rate heading in one direction......up.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Glenn,

With the utmost respect for your wife, her professional credentials and expertise, it is just one person's opinion.

I'll bet I can get some of the doctors I work with to disagree immensly. BTW we have doctors from Canada practicing locally.

I'll disagree with you on Stu's problems. Delayed final diagnosis due to a lack of equipment is a problem caused by the system. Delayed treatment due to the delayed diagnosis is also a problem with the system.

His wifes' problem.....again systemic. Based on Stu's posting without paying thousands of dollars monthly out of their own pocket they can't see another specialist unless referred by her current doctor. Again....problem caused by the system IMHO.

I will also repeat and this was told to my face. A gentleman from Calgary in a motel in Coeur d'Alene, ID telling me how on Saturday nights people use the ER as a baby sitting service while they party. He also mentioned that the tour bus he was on had a good probability of stopping in Spokane the next morning when somebody aboard had a "heart attack" due to delayed treatment in Canada. Again Glenn...this gentleman told me to my face.

Explain to me the difference between socialized medicine and making insurance available? If someone else is footing the bill, and it's available to everyone what is the difference?

Medicare, in some cases, doesn't even reimburse the cost of performing certain exams and procedures. As a result, hospitals end up charging more for the same exam, so they can recoop their losses from those of us lucky enough to have insurance. If you pay a co-ay like I do, I'm helping pay for those Medicare exams.

I know fully well the problem with aging parents. I've been dealing with the financials of that for quite a few years.

As you are aware, my delayed retirement is going to happen due to dental expenses and I have dental insurance.

Here's my take on this.

The problem is not black and white but is truly complex.

You can't make a direct comparison between Canada and the US BECAUSE of the population differences.

Don't give me "Let's do something now and we'll iron out the details later". California did that and look at their financial crisis now.

While the goal of having medical treatment available for everyone is commendable, it is complex. I really don't think our politicians are capable making a good honest effort to solve the problems because of political pressures by too many special interest groups.

Do something is better than doing nothing? NOT.

Either take time to develop a well thoughtout financially viable solution or handle things on the local level using donations and fund raising.

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod, by saying the government is not involved other than paying for services do you mean that the government is the one who ADMINISTERS the program? If so, I think our great fear is the potential for our government to drop the ball in the administration end of things.

Jeff, I find it hard to believe that your government is either worse than, or better than ours.

When you need medical attention, you go to the doctor/hospital etc and they send the bill to the government agency responsible for healthcare.

That's as complicated as it gets from a user perspective.

I'm sure there's more to it than that, however as the user all I do is go for a doctors visit or go to the hospital or to emergency if it's a serious injury or after hours.

For example, my mother is in the final stage of terminal cancer. She's in the hospital, there are no financial considerations for the family.

Two years ago when she was diagnosed, she received chemotherapy and radiation treatment which gave her a good quality of life for an additional two years. There was no possibility of a cure.

Our only outside expense was for parking at the hospital while taking her for her daily treatment.

Regards, Rod.

[Glenn Clabo]

Ken,
"With the utmost respect for your wife, her professional credentials and expertise, it is just one person's opinion." She is not in a position to base her statements on subjective evidence. She states objective facts. When you present the evidence...doctors back down from "feelings". I've seen it happen time and time again.

"His wifes' problem" ... Okay...if you are telling me they can't get a second opinion under their system...I agree...it's a stupid system.

"Explain to me the difference between socialized medicine and making insurance available?" Socialized medicine is medicine that is controlled and fudnded by the government. Making insurance available to everyone is using the power of numbers to reduce the costs and make sure everyone can have it so those who do don't have to pay for those who don't have it. (just read this again...yipes!)

"dental insurance" ... Trust me...I understand.

"I know fully well the problem with aging parents." My point is...Her parents who are from VERY humble means...will never go bankrupt for healthcare reasons...unlike my parents who probably will.

"the rest of your comments" I agree.

Now...are you ready for another round of Lienie's...I'm buying.

[Greg Peterson]

Someone's got to pay for any new plans coming down the pike. Do that at the expense of small business owners and you'll find the unemployment rate heading in one direction......up.

I find it hard to believe that corporate America would be against a reduction in employee benefits.

It was all that long ago that the auto makers were complaining about the cost of health insurance ($1,900 per vehicle). Sure these are legacy costs based on contracts signed years ago. But even small companies would benefit from a work force that was insured.

I guess a parallel would be public education. Everyone benefits from our public educatin system, including employers.

The simple fact is that we are not receiving any where near the return on our investment that other countries with a unifersal plan are experiencing.

I could provide plenty of stories about how OUR health insurance system has devasted families and left people to die because something wasn't covered.

And frankly, if someone is recovering from a major medical incident, wouldn't their energies be better spent getting well rather than rifling through the endless medical bills, statements and fighting the insurance companies denial of services?

When it comes to reproductive rights folks have little qualms about letting a beaurocrat get between a patient and their doctor. But when it comes to private industry generating gross, inhumane derived profits, then it is somehow a bad thing, as if a universal program is somehow managed by thte government.

[Scott Shepherd]

I find it hard to believe that corporate America would be against a reduction in employee benefits.

If corporate America isn't going to pay for it, who is? Hint- you and me.

If you think it'll reduce employee benefit costs, you should read what's being proposed. Mandatory pay into the system. Last time I checked, the government hasn't run a single program that did what it was supposed to for the amount it was sold to the public.

I really don't want anything run by the people that run the IRS or Department of Motor Vehicles. Does anyone actually believe these morons we send to Washington are capable of putting together a plan that works on anything? If so, you have more faith in them than I do.

What they should be doing is studying the life's work of Dr. Deming and understanding how to apply his processes to the health care system. They tried it in education with outstanding results (of course we don't use it because that would make sense).

The solution to everything isn't handing over power and money. We've been dumping money into education by the truck fulls since I was a kid. Every election year, all you hear is "we need more money for education". Does anyone actually believe our kids are smarter today? I have a relative that just graduated high school. I mention someone being Cambodian. They said "Is that real, or did you just make that up?".

Money's nothing the problem, it's the method. Fix the method and all else will resolve itself.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Rod, thanks for posting that.

I guess the thing that worries me the most about the current push to change the health care system in the USA, (besides the higher taxes) is the governments time honored ability to mess up anything that it touches. I know this current system works, and honestly, how many people that are being targeted for this new insurance, don't have Medicare or Medicad right now?

As Rod mentioned about the Canadian system, if all that the government does is pay, that might work here, but thats not what is being proposed, correct?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Glenn,

It will require a change to our society that I don't think most will be willing to make.

Our health system needs change. I will not argue that.

I don't want to see a quick, poorly planned resolution just for the sake of speed.

But..... there is greed everywhere and health care is just one area that is at the forefront right now.

Everyone can find reason to fault the other guy's bonanza. Few want to weedout the problems within their own backyard.

Whether you call it "buying insurance" or "paying for treatment"...the only difference is a middle man. If someone else is paying for it..it's socialized. Call it what it is.....

No Leinies, locally. I'll have a Bud Light. My name is Ken!

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Steve, my only experience with the American system was in 2007 when I had to go to emergency in North Carolina while on vacation.

Once the hospital found that I had full coverage, I was treated like their best customer.

It was a bit of a change from when I first walked in wearing my riding suit, carrying my helmet in my hand.

I don't know what's being proposed in the US, however if the insurance companies are making money under the present system, if all you did was remove their profit, you must be able to save something.

You should be able to pay the people who do the administration just like the insurance companies do, for the same price, and remove the profit.

I know that the "universal" aspect of the Canadian system is sometimes viewed in a negative light, as being a socialist creation, so it may not be the system that many Americans would embrace.

Regards, Rod.

[Carlos Alden]

Hey all:

Nice discussion on healthcare. I haven't heard any yelling or screaming yet, and so far no one has invoked the name of a radio talk show host, so we're doing great. Thanks for keeping things civil.

Seriously, this issue needs to be discussed and aired out, and no matter which side on is on right now we all need to hear possible changes and options.

Carlos

[Greg Peterson]

My employer provides health insurance. I have to pay a portion of it. Were a universal plan available, my employer would drop the private plan, I would not have to pay a portion out of pocket, and my employer could pay me at least a portion of what would have gone to the insurance plan. Sure my taxes would go up, but I'm already paying a fair sum each month as it is and I'm sure my employer would at least split the difference with me. They get to keep half of their savings, I get the other half.

Dropping an insurance plan free's up an employers capital to pay their employers a higher wage.

[Scott Shepherd]

Anyone that thinks this is going to reduce costs or be "free" to everyone should take the time to read the bill (unlike the congress that vote on bills before they are finished being written).

Name me one thing the government has done under budget and that's worked well and efficient.

Post office? Nope.
DMV? Nope.
IRS? Nope.
Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac? Nope.
Treasury? Nope.
Military? Nope. (most advanced in the world, but by no means efficient behind the scenes)


The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Thinking those bozos can figure a well oiled machine out that will save all of us money is a thought that doesn't enter my head.

There is a growing unrest amongst small business owners that are going to have to deal with much higher costs for this. They are starting to get vocal and speak out on the facts of the plans and how those impact their businesses.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I will caution everyone......

No politics. I know it's hard but this can be discussed without getting into politics.


Greg and Scott....

Greg....to think your employer will drop your insurance and pay employees more.....well I wouldn' bet my house or even my next pay check on it.


Scott,

The trouble with the theoretical "capitalism" in today's worlkd is that it seldom is recognizeable in practice because of the "X-factor" called man...and his disease called "greed".

In business today words your never hear mentioned "Fair" "Reasonable" applied to profit. It is not used. You hear the words "WHAT THE MARKET WILL BEAR".....big grandiose ......it means if it comes down to making a smaller margin and a larger market or larger margin and smaller market....the latter will be taken. Business and the stock market have a real credibility problem with the American public right now. AIG....GM......Made-off...isn't that the name with 150 year reservation at the US Federal resort?......then was it worldcom?...the CEO from Mississippi?....Enron......Then there are the smaller investment managers..the guy who crashed his plane to fake his own death? A couple of days later another was found to have left his car at an airport in FL....then the next week the 2 guys in California with the $80 million Ponzi scheme.....

Don't bet your employer will give you the difference. There is plenty of greed to go around.

Everbody has tunnel vision. They look out for themselves with little regard to what's fair and reasonable.

[Greg Peterson]

Post office actually does a pretty good job. They are not a federally funded agency, at least since 1970.

DMV is a state agency.

IRS does a real good job of getting their money. Ask anyone that ran afoul of the IRS.

Treasury? You mean the privately owned Federal Reserve?

Military - $900 hammer back in the 80's? Yeah, that was courtesy a private contractor. Plenty of examples of skyrocketing costs thanks to privatization of the military.