solid wood countertop question

[tom clark]

This is my first post to this forum although I've been reading and learning from the many experts here for months.

I am in the planning stages of building a kitchen island bartop. I have finally decided on a design similar to the table top featured on the cover of Woodworker's Journal Arts and Crafts issue (spring, 2004). Basically it is a 1" thich solid top with a 2" wide (x1" thick) solid wood band glued and splined to the edge. The top featured is expandable by inserting table leaves, so the banding is only on three sdes of each "half." Being that my proposed bar top would be banded entirely, would I be asking for problems?

[Todd Burch]

Tom, welcome to SMC!

You didn't say how wide the top was going to be, or what flavor wood, or what cut of wood (tangentially cut, radially cut, etc., or, in more common terms, flatsawn, quatersawn, riftsawn, etc.) you will be using, as both of these a big factors in determining potential for wood movement.

What is the average relative humidity where you live?

There are at least two things that could occur using a wide solid wood glue-up and then wrapping it with wood that expands and contracts at a different rate:

1) the panel could split if it wants to shrink and can't
2) the joinery at the corners of the banding could be pushed apart by the top swelling
3) the top could otherwise buckle or twist in an attempt to stabilize when moved from your un-air-conditioned workshop to your air-conidtioned kitchen.

Todd

[tom clark]

Thanks Todd for your reply. The countertop is to be cherry and will be 24" at its widest, including the 2" banding. The wood has not been purchased yet so I could buy the type of cut which will minimize movement (would that be rift?). The average relative humidity is 75% in the winter and 60% in the summer and fall.

[Todd Burch]

Here's what I woud do in your situation.

I would do it. Along the side grain of your solid top, spline and glue the edge banding on securely. Along the end grain, glue the spline into the banding, but fully into the end grain. I would heavily glue 8"-9" from on corner towards the middle. On the other 11" to 12", I would lightly glue, and use yellow glue since it will allow a little wood movement. (it will creep).

Further, I would glue up the solid top, and the side edgings, then bring the whole mess into the house for a minimum of 3 weeks before applying the end banding. Then, quickly finish and bring back indoors (or finish indoors).

If you ever hanve any issues, you'll only have one corner to mess with. If the banding is box joined or dovetail joined, that would be better than a butt or miter joint.

Let us know, and take pictures! Todd

[Ana Andrews]

Yes, share some pictures Todd! I am also eager to see the outcome. I'm planning to install wood countertops at home knowing it's pros which is really helpful and beneficial. One of the biggest advantages of this type of countertop is the look that it can provide your kitchen. Many people prefer the rustic look that can come with a wood countertop. Therefore, this can be a very desirable feature when you go to sell your house in the future. Another advantage of this type of countertop is that you can easily repair scratches or dings. If you get a scratch in a wood countertop, all you have to do is sand it out.

[Mark Rakestraw]

Quartersawn would be best, but even that is very likely to move too much over a 2' span for banding. Why design for failure? I would either learn to like the looks of endgrain (you could still build up to your desired edge thickness) or use breadboard ends.

[ken gibbs]

Go with a breadboard. You will be amazed how much that wood moves with humidity changes. If yodon't know how to do the breadboard, let us know and I will give you some advice for fastening the top to the island so the wood top can move.

[Steve Schoene]

The only way you could, with any decent prospect of success, use a banding all around a central panel is if the panel were veneered, not solid wood. The other method that is usually used, is frame and panel construction, but that won't work for a kitchen island because it would collect dirt in the area where the frame and floating panel meet.

But there is nothing wrong with end grain. No need for breadboards since the top will be secured , with z clips or figure 8's, to the cabinets, keeping it relatively flat. You do need to allow it to change in width. If it is free on both sides, attach it firmly down the center so any movement will be distributed to each side about equally.

[Prashun Patel]

I wouldn't edge band any of it. If it's solid wood, just make the long edge pieces a little wider then the inner pieces to give the impression of a border, and to account for lost width if you route the edge.

I just did a bar top for my house, and I don't regret leaving the edge or end grain exposed. It finishes up fine and looks great. If you really want to, just sand the edges a little higher in grit and wash coat them in shellac to prevent them from darkening vis-a-vis the rest of the top.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...rtop&highlight=

[Howard Acheson]

Quartersawn would be best, but even that is very likely to move too much over a 2' span for banding. Why design for failure? I would either learn to like the looks of endgrain (you could still build up to your desired edge thickness) or use breadboard ends.

I agree totally. The design is a design for future failure. Cherry is a wood that has a relatively large expansion/contraction factor

[Ana Andrews]

Wooden countertops made out of wooden panels are some of the most common types of countertops purchased because they are what everyone thinks about when they consider a wooden countertop. There can be some variety in wooden countertops that are made out of wooden panels, such as using alternating colors of wood for each of the panels to create a dramatic stripe effect or placing the panels going from the front of the countertop towards the back in short panels instead of using the long panels that go from side to side. The wooden panels may even be placed diagonally across the countertop to create another unique design for a wooden countertop.

[Peter Quinn]

There are two reasonable choices IMO. Breadboard ends would be one. The other is to make the top a bit longer than you need, take a slice off each and and fold this under and glue that on to build up the bottom edge at each end. It does leave exposed end grain, and your island to top connection will have to be relied upon to keep things flat, but the wood is all moving in the right direction and the end grain match can be pretty close that way. This works even better if you are putting some sort of bullnose or edge detail as the shaping tends to obscure the glue line.

[phil harold]

OK folks lets first look at what he is trying to mimic before telling how it is to be done...

[Joseph D'Orazio]

Go with a breadboard. You will be amazed how much that wood moves with humidity changes. If yodon't know how to do the breadboard, let us know and I will give you some advice for fastening the top to the island so the wood top can move.

I would love to hear you talk more about breadboard ends. That is a topic that I am really interested in. I've done the youtube search thingy on it and there is a little about making them but not much and I didn't see one that showed the whole process.

Tom, sorry about the hijack. Please forgive.

[Jamie Buxton]

OK folks lets first look at what he is trying to mimic before telling how it is to be done...

Good. Now we know what the original poster was talking about. (Pretty, isn't it? Greene and Greene style.)

Making the center panel from solid lumber is asking for trouble. I'd make it from plywood, for stability. For durability, I'd use thick veneer, shop-cut.