Main Panel Feedback

[Rollie Meyers]

I'm no expert, but I can say this...

Siemens isn't exactly the first brand name that comes up when talking boxes or breakers. Down the road, should a breaker require replacement, or addition, they may be substantially harder to find than a comparable GE or Square D.

The line Siemens is selling used to branded I-T-E, ITE Circuit Breaker Co. , ITE Imperial Corp, Gould/ITE, which have been around a long time.They also made the "Pushmatic" circuit breakers which were branded Bulldog & later as I-T-E...


The breakers have been around a long time....

[Alan Trout]

George, if this is the only panel being fed by the service you will need a main disconnect if there are going to be over 6 breakers in that panel. That is code. In my neck of the woods typically you see a main panel at the exterior of the building or on the power pole in rural areas with fewer than 6 breakers or a main disconnect for that panel if there are over 6 breakers and then breakers feed sub-panels from that exterior main service panel.

Good Luck

Alan

[George Bregar]

George, if this is the only panel being fed by the service you will need a main disconnect if there are going to be over 6 breakers in that panel. That is code. In my neck of the woods typically you see a main panel at the exterior of the building or on the power pole in rural areas with fewer than 6 breakers or a main disconnect for that panel if there are over 6 breakers and then breakers feed sub-panels from that exterior main service panel.

Good Luck

Alan

As long as the main panel is within 8' of the meter pedestal then no disconnect is required. They are back to back. Not that anyone would know. No inspection is required because it is an existing structure. Still waiting for the utility to install the meter and energize the service. Lots of storms Monday up north and they are a little behind.

[George Bregar]

George, I'd check the bending radius requirement on your neutral connector. It's either 8 or 12 times the conductor radius and that bend is tighter than either of those.

Where is the conductoir from the ground rods tied in?

The panel will not be inspected. So is this a dangerous issue? I could bring it into the panel and route it the same as the two hot connectors. Brought it to the right just so I would not take up too much space on the left for branch circuit wiring. The ground rods are tied to the neutral/ground bus with #6 bare copper as shown in the attachment (lower left).

[Richard Jones]

I believe the bend is in compliance and the 100a main breaker IS the disconnect. The 6-throw rule only applies if there's NOT a disconnect. Not sure I understand any problem here. I see a bare ground wire (assuming it is tied to the ground rods with an approved connector and the rods are 6' (min.) apart). I also see that big green bonding screw, neutral is identified, correct bushing, neutral and ground buses connected properly.

I would approve this, assuming the ground rods are OK. We don't get into the brand of breakers being in that particular brand of panel, tho' strictly speaking, the only approved breakers should be those listed and labeled to be in that panel. Some of the panels now ARE listed and labeled with brands of breakers other than their own. I'm just not that anal about brand names. Common sense vs. letter of the law and all that........

Does anyone see anything specifically wrong with this install? The only thing I see is that the two utility companies in my jurisdiction don't want you hooking up ANYTHING in THEIR meter base. But, this may be fine in your area.

Rich

[George Bregar]

I believe the bend is in compliance and the 100a main breaker IS the disconnect. The 6-throw rule only applies if there's NOT a disconnect. Not sure I understand any problem here. I see a bare ground wire (assuming it is tied to the ground rods with an approved connector and the rods are 6' (min.) apart). I also see that big green bonding screw, neutral is identified, correct bushing, neutral and ground buses connected properly.

I would approve this, assuming the ground rods are OK. We don't get into the brand of breakers being in that particular brand of panel, tho' strictly speaking, the only approved breakers should be those listed and labeled to be in that panel. Some of the panels now ARE listed and labeled with brands of breakers other than their own. I'm just not that anal about brand names. Common sense vs. letter of the law and all that........

Does anyone see anything specifically wrong with this install? The only thing I see is that the two utility companies in my jurisdiction don't want you hooking up ANYTHING in THEIR meter base. But, this may be fine in your area.

Rich

I have two 5/8" 8' ground rods spaced about 10' apart, using an approved acorn clamp, with the ground wire as needed running parallel to the rod in the v-groove of the clamp. (see pic...although this is before a torqued down the clamp!)

Are you saying the service entrance neutral conductor bend is okay? That would be reassuring because they are installing the meter and energizing it tomorrow and I would not be real excited about rerouting it. In my research I saw nothing regarding bend radius.

As far as the work in the meter pedestal, the utility requires the customer installation of an approved pedestal off their list (mine is), and the wiring between the pedestal and main panel completed. Their service is 200A, so 2/0 copper was required. They also require code compliant grounding.

[Richard Jones]

Yes, I'm saying I would approve the bend, doesn't look too short to me at all. There is some NEC language that addresses bends/radius (radii?) of cables. Too short tends to become too hot.

Again, as far as what I can see of the pics, I think it's OK. Let us know how your energize goes...........

Rich

[Rob Russell]

No inspection is required because it is an existing structure. Still waiting for the utility to install the meter and energize the service.

OK - where I live, a new service means permit + inspection.

[Rob Russell]

I've looked for the specific code cite on bending radius and have not found it. I found it for volts over 600V, but not under 600V. I don't have the time right now to keep searching.

[Alan Trout]

George, I am sorry but that is not code. Here is 2006 IRC

E3501.7 Maximum number of disconnects.
The service disconnecting means shall consist of not more than six switches or six circuit breakers mounted in a single enclosure or in a group of separate enclosures.

If you want to refer to NEC that is 230.71 which says basically the same thing. That might be OK by your local authorities but that is not what is written in code.

I am a professional inspector so this is something I deal with every day. I just want you to be safe. The other issue of not having a disconnect if you ever need to add additional breakers you will have to wire the panel hot or you will have to pull the meter to disconnect that panel.

Good Luck

Alan

[Richard Jones]

George, I am sorry but that is not code. Here is 2006 IRC

E3501.7 Maximum number of disconnects.
The service disconnecting means shall consist of not more than six switches or six circuit breakers mounted in a single enclosure or in a group of separate enclosures.

If you want to refer to NEC that is 230.71 which says basically the same thing. That might be OK by your local authorities but that is not what is written in code.

I am a professional inspector so this is something I deal with every day. I just want you to be safe. The other issue of not having a disconnect if you ever need to add additional breakers you will have to wire the panel hot or you will have to pull the meter to disconnect that panel.

Good Luck

Alan

Alan,

There is a 100a breaker in the top of the panel that is the service disconnect. Maybe you can't see it in the pic.

Rich

[Richard Jones]

I've looked for the specific code cite on bending radius and have not found it. I found it for volts over 600V, but not under 600V. I don't have the time right now to keep searching.

Bob,

Assuming this is SE or similar, 338.24, NEC 2005.

In reality, the bend where the cable enters the cabinet at the bottom is tighter or just as tight, due to space restrictions, i.e., the actual depth of the cabinet, so I believe the bend at the neutral to be in compliance. I can't really see this as a potential problem, can you? If the jacket starts to deform on the inside curve, then there may be a problem, but I see this as a smooth, even bend and can't imagine any heat build in this area, especially considering the potential load.

Am I looking at this wrong?

Rich

[Alan Trout]

Sorry, I could not see it in the pic. That is what I was asking. As Gilda Radner use to say "Never Mind"


Thanks,

Alan

[George Bregar]

Utility has done their connection. I have power. Now I can get to finishing wiring, drywalling the ceiling, removing and walling off the door car gargae door, OSB'ing the walls....