CNC Shark Pro questions

[David Briski]

I have 0 CNC experience, but lots of computer and programming experience.

I am looking at possibly buying a CNC Shark Pro to add new capabilities, and increase productivity in a home shop. (24x24 capacity) I am leaning towards this system for three reasons, one the price, though a little higher than I want to go about $3500 is max for what I can spend. The second reason is the size of the machine, I have very limited space in my shop. I of course would like a large cutting surface but I don't have the shop space right now. Lastly I don't have the time to build one myself (Need something I could get setup in a weekend tops). I also have the colt already and it comes with the software.

I am looking to do some 3d carvings, MDF routed raised panel door/drawer fronts, precision templates, signs and I am sure lots more as I discover them.

Any Pros or cons about this system would be appriciated. Any other systems that would meet these criteria would be appricated.

I am also interested in knowing about its expandability / future uses. Eventually I will hopefully get more shop space and have more time that I could possibly build one of Joes 4x4 or something similar. Would I be able to same much money reusing some of the parts from the CNC shark, like the stepper motors, controller, power supply etc. I know for sure I could use the same software, and I could use the shark to make many of the parts for the 4x4.


A couple questions reguarding use. If I wanted to route a simple design that was longer than 24" (the capacity of this machine) but narrower than 24" so it fit between the gantry, lets say 44" is it easy enough to do 1/2 of the design and then slide it to do the other 1/2" is there a way to register it so it is smooth without a seam? What about something >48" requiring 3 or more shifts?

And one last question. Does anyone know the total amp draw from the CNC Shark (not including the Colt , 5.7amps and the computer)?

Thanks

David

[Phil B]

The Shark is a nice looking little system, there are some others you might want to look into.

Sidewinder has a 40x26 machine that I think would be a more project friendly size. It costs more, it doesn’t come with v-carve but does (so it says) include a lic copy of mach.
http://www.cncsidewinder.com/

If you crunch the numbers it looks like the sidewinder is around 64 cents per cubic cutting inches, the shark is over twice that.

Another one to look at is found at http://www.finelineautomation.com/. This is a kit which you say you do not want but it looks fairly well bolt-together, not as much work involved as compared to Joe’s 4x4, more than the Shark though. See http://www.peakeff.com/beta/PostDetail.aspx?PostID=11

As for being able to cut longer pieces, since it is a cnc machine you would be able to cut registration pins into the machine and then registration marks into the piece so shifting the work is possible, you won’t like to do it though. Would you be able to detect a seam, probably, sometimes.

A trim router will work but not every bit you might want to use comes in 0.25” shank.

Your ability to re-use Shark parts on another machine depends greatly on the design of that. There is a lot of expense tied up in the linear motion components, those would most likely not be re-useable.

[James Leonard]

Hi, Have a look at the high-precision collets being made for the Bosch Colt by PreciseBits. This will allow a VERY low runout solution and the use of their 1/8" shank micro tools also.

http://www.precisebits.com/products/...h_Colt_Collets

Both 1/4" and 1/8" collets feature runout (TIR) spec of < .0006 inches.

-James

[David Briski]

The sidewinder looks like a good alternative, slightly larger and looks well made. I have only seen a few posts on this when searching and most are not positive. Any one have first hand experience with the sidewinder 40x26? Some complaints about it not being ridgid enough along the gantry and can flex in the center when cutting. Is there an easy fix to that? Is this a good hobby machine?

[james mcgrew]

the fellows at camaster who build my larger machines debut the mc class at mann tool last week, bit higher than some bugets but it is a longterm machine. and is a money maker for the owner

www.camaster.com

jim

[David Briski]

Did they give you a price point for the MC CNC Router? I didn't see anything on their website.

[james mcgrew]

i would call them at the number on the website, joey was out the last few days but i believe he is back today

jim

[james mcgrew]

the mc class machine is built with hiwin bearings and all of the same industrial class materials as the commercial machines i have in my shop, the other machines in its class use v bearings and less expensive components, its price reflects that of the difference in a powermatic and a grizzley tool when comparing and can feel real pricey real quick, i can understand how these american machine builders feel about this as once it is delivered it just works and works no issues, i will not be for everyone but is worth a fair look by all who seek cnc.

jim

[Mike Package]

I have a Shark. Standard, not Pro. I was in a similar position - limited budget, didn't want to build my first machine, and had lots of computing experience.

The good - the frame of the machine itself is quite sturdy. From openng the box to making sawdust was only an hour or two, although in fairness, I had messed with the vcarve demo in advance. And vcarve itself is a great piece of 2d cam software. I'm sure there are more expensive applications that outshine it but it was so much nicer than any of the other low-to-moderatley priced software I tried.

The bad - I overestimated the power, speed, and accuracy of the unit. The Colt is a good tool but it's also a laminate trimmer, really, not a robust router. The motors are very modestly powered and not fast. And perhaps most importantly, especially ong the long (y) axis there is lots of whip in the leadscrew which means that for long straight cuts along Y, there's an undulation that causes a ripple in the cut. Not drastic but it's there. Best results are obtained by cutting slow and easy. Most of my cuts are with a 1/4" spiral end mill, in hardwoods, at approx 45 inches/min and 25% stepover for rough cuts and 5% for finer cuts. Do the math and you'll see that complicated and/or long cuts can take a while.

The ugly - nothing too terrible. Althouh I will say that I called the support contact phone number to discuss the y axis issue and other things...left a message with the person who is apparently the sole support contact, and he never called me back.

What I have learned? Well the good news is I feel like I have learned a ton. Prior to owning the shark I would not have attempted building my owN machine. But having worked with one and seen under the hood now, I would have no qualms about puttingtogether a kit.

I have learned that while you can cut pieces longer than the y axis by shifting the along indexing holes as described above, I also agree with that posterin that it's not an e ash or enjoyable thing to do. For reasons having to do more with the softwarethan the hardware.

A few other things I'll mention....know that vcarve is not 3d software. It is really 2/2.5d. It is also not very capable design software. Think of it as your 2/2.5d cam solution, look elsewhere for cad software and 3d (vectric's cut3d Is pretty darn good for the price) and you won't be disappointed like I was the first time you realize thatv
vcarve by itself will not make a 3d cut for you.

I don regret the purchase although the machine is not as useful as I hoped it would be. At best it is a second pair of hands as long as I cut withi it's limitations. The shark can be carving away on onepuece while I sand another. That's a huge time saver. It's also an accurate way for me to cut routing templates which are very Important to what I do. Again though, as long as I don't push it too far.

Can the parts be reused? I think the knowledge you will gain can be reused perhaps moreso than any hardware. That's how I feel at least. The software you can mos definitely reuse. And perhaps the electronics. I may either attempt to beef up the weak points of the hardware (like the leadscrew assemblies, where the motor shaft bears the weight of the leadscrew instead of a proper bearing doing that job) or I may sell the unit and build one of the larger kits available. Or I may sell it, outsource my cnc work and possibly look towards a shopbot or similar further down the road.

Anyway, I hope you find this helpful. Sorry for the typos - I posted this from my phone! My contact info is on my website - sbguitars.com. Feel free to email or call to chat about it further.
-mike

[james mcgrew]

now that is an accuate review!! although other than parametrics i have yet to find anything i could not design with vcarvepro and now aspire, have you been on the forum for vectric?



jim

[Mike Package]

now that is an accuate review!! although other than parametrics i have yet to find anything i could not design with vcarvepro and now aspire, have you been on the forum for vectric?



jim

Jim, yeah - their support forum is great. I'm "ratter" there and on other forums. I think vcp is great and I bought cut3d which is also great. I'm sure aspire is even better. I use rhino for cad and vcp really just can't compare in that capacity but maybe aspire does. - I haven't tried it. But between vcp, c3d, and rhino, I don't feel limited by the software at all. Just the hardware.

I should also mention that intended use makes a ton of difference. For someone making small signs the shark might prove ideal. I'm probably pushing it well past it's intended use and am more interested in larger (although still precise) cuts moreso than fine detail work. So my review exists in that context.

And reading back what I posted I should have put more emphasis on the setup time or lack thereof. To think that you can open the box, bolt on the gantry, plug it I'm and you're rolling.... That's really quite remarkable, IMO.

[Mike Package]

Oh and despite my lack of a callback from rockler...the vectric support was the opposite. The vcp cd that came with my shark was blank! So I couldn't do anything at first but use the software in demo mode which will only cut their tutorial files. But one email to vectric and they got me a software download link with a new full license and I was back in business. That's one reason I didn't hesitate to purchase cut3d when it became obvious how necessary it was for any true 3d cuts.

[james mcgrew]

one definantly should not mistake vcarve or aspire (which aspire has all of vcarve functions in it) for a full blown cad program. i do some prettry intricate cabinet work and have yet to find any thing i cannot do with it!!

jim

[Rob Hermann]

WOW Mike, THANK YOU! That is the best info/feedback I have found anywhere about the Shark. I've been considering it for almost a year and cannot find anyone who has owned or used one. Thanks again for the insight!

[Glenn Corser]

We started trying to mess around with CNC about 5 years ago and bought a MaxNC milling machine. We didn't realize that we really wanted a router so it turned out to be an expensive learning machine. I'm pretty negative on MaxNC and wouldn't recommend them to anyone. Things finally got to the point where I needed something bigger that actually worked but I didn't want to spend a bunch of money or spend the time to build my own until I was sure what I wanted to do would make some money. Since I'm making relatively small parts I decided to try a Zenbot 1216 - www.zenbotcnc.com. It is a great little machine for the money - fast, accurate and uses Mach 4. I do all my layouts in Corel, generate toolpaths with SheetCam, and route it with the Zenbot. If you are looking for a cheap way to learn CNC, I highly recommend it.