What tools would you start with for a shop doing more than Turning?

[Joshua Dinerstein]

My Fellow Creekers...

I have been a turner for a few years now. Prior to that I occasionally built a wood work bench at each house in the garage. So count on 2 or 3 of those and other than that nothing since High School.

A cousin who loved close got bitten by the bug and started working with wood and then wanted a lathe and it was about this time that I went over and watched and well I got bitten too. Sadly the bite seems to have been fatal... to my wallet at least. I went from a cheap HF $70 lathe to their $250 lathe to a Jet 1642evs to a Powermatic 3520b. Of course dust collection followed as well as a sliding compound miter saw etc...

I learned a love for beautiful wood and how fantastic well made things from wood can be both in appearance and in functionality.

So flash forward to today. My wife and I bought a new house. This gave us 2 things. Finally a full 1 1/2 bay sized garage bay to be JUST my woodshop as well as 2 more bays to park the cars in AND more than 2x the space on the inside of the home itself. So the furniture we had just doesn't begin to fill the space. Ah ha! Time to start making furniture as well as turning "just for the fun of it"!

I got online and found some plans being sold by a wood magazine and for the most part they look doable to me. I already have some of the tools that will be needed. Drills, hand sanders, etc... But there are a few big ticket items that I will need. But I don't want to follow the same path as I did with the lathe. Spending hundreds of dollars, well ok a bit more than that actually so sometimes thousands, just to finally upgrade to a machine not only does what I want it to do but makes it easier instead of harder to accomplish a given task.

So I am left trying to put together the rest of the tools. I figure I need a table saw, a band saw, a planer, and a few various sanders. I have hand held sanders but a good oscillating spindle sander could for instance be a good addition. Much of this guessing at what was needed came from watching His Normness on TV, various DIY shows, etc...

But this is where things take a turn for the worse for our hero (that would be me in this story... I started looking around primarily at Home Depot and other related stores. They have TSes for $90. But I have seen this movie! I figure that a $90 table saw is going to be about as good as that first $70 lathe I bought first. So I started looking for more. Their higher end TSes look a ton better but are still not quite what I was expecting. A few books later and a DVD on mastering your table saw and what I realized was that there are just too darn many options. And unless I want to buy one of each and compare them myself I need to ask those who have gone down this path before me. So I started with the internet at large. And OF COURSE you get conflicting answers. One is buy the very largest and best, read most expensive, TS you can lay your hands on. Go right to the top and get the best. The very next page says no way would that person recommend more than a basic contractors saw to a beginner as you "just never know..." This of course helped... tho not much as for the most part they all said avoid the ~ $100 saws.

A few more facts first. I think what what I want to make is rather simple. I want to make a bed frame for the wife and I, a bed-end blanket-box/seat, perhaps a dresser or two, some mirror stands for the LOML, a table/desk for the babies room as she grows, toy boxes etc...

So here we are with me asking on the very best place on the net to ask such questions:

1- What do I really need tool wise in order to start making some decent furniture for use around the house? TS? BS? Planer? Sanders? ???

2- Is a table saw necessary? Is it a good idea? Is there a better idea?

3- What about a band saw? Necessary? Helpful? A waste of time and money?

Now we get down to the hard ones...

4- Assuming yes to the above, What table saw? Before we even get to brand/make/model what type of table saw would you really recommend for someone just getting into this kind of wood working? Are these small garage one from HD really worth anything? What about a contractors saw? Or is it really hybrid or better/larger really what is needed?

5- Given that answer being yes get a TS, what brand/make/model would you recommend? Grizzly has so many variations I had no clue what would be better... all at seemingly reasonable prices. Or is Delta/Jet/Powermatic/??? a better starter saw and worth the difference?

Also I am a programmer by trade and given that I quite literally make my living with my hands and all 10 fingers I have been looking at the online ads, videos, stories for the Sawstop saws. They seem like a great idea. Something that can and will save you from pretty catastrophic injuries seems like a good idea. If it isn't just a gimmick. The price on them is amazingly high in some ways tho. Grizzly's contractor saw start around $500 and go up to over a $1000. The SS table saws seem to start at around $1600 and go up from there.

6- Are used tools a good idea? I bought a rabbeting jointer that was from the early 60s and was made by Powermatic. What an amazingly well made tool. So I started looking for a used TS. I have never seen so many bottom-end Ryobi tools. Most of which looked... wretched. I suppose if I am patient enough I can find a good deal. If I knew what to look for!

Well I fear I went on a little long and haven't even really gotten to the rest of the list. So I will just summarize by saying how about the same types of questions for the bandsaw and sanders, planers etc... that I might need?

Thanks a Million!
Joshua

[Von Bickley]

Joshua,

For what you will need I would reccomend a GOOD contractor TS, a GOOD miter saw, and a GOOD router. Your first project should be a router table and then outfeed tables for the TS and miter saw. Then you can get a few more routers and a drill press......

[Kyle Iwamoto]

No brainer for the TS. If you can spring for the SawStop, buy one. Keep all 10 fingers. The SS is a really good saw. You have my dream lathe, the SS should be no problem.

A 14" Bandsaw will be handy. I think the band saw is one of the most underestimated saws out there. Very useful once you get one. Kerf is MUCH smaller than the TS. Don't have to cut straight too. Can cut bends.

[Cody Colston]

• A good tablesaw, either contractor or cabinet saw.
• A jointer - a 6" will work but an 8" is a better investment.
• A thickness planer - goes hand in hand with a jointer. The lunchbox models do a good job without costing an arm and a leg.
• A router or three - one in a table is a good idea.
• A bandsaw - you can cut curves with a jigsaw but for re-sawing, nothing beats a bandsaw.

Those are the major power tools. A decent block plane and a set of bench chisels are indispensable, also.

As you get into building furniture, you will discover other tools that are either necessary or make the task so much easier that you will want them. The turning vortex is just one aspect of a bigger addiction that is called woodworking. It's all fun and it's all expensive but worth it, IMNSHO.

BTW, you have my "dream lathe", too.

[Howard Norman]

A decent contractors table saw with a good blade will allow you to build furniture. The problem is dust collection. I have used a Delta contractors saw for many years and wish that I had purchased a cabinet saw because of the dust collection problems. If I was where you are I would consider one of the Grizzly cabinet saws. You are probable going to want a jointer. I have the Grizzly 0490 jointer myself. A decent planer should be added also. I have an old Delta lunchbox planer myself. Keep saying that I am going to replace it but just never get around to it. I have a Delta 14" bandsaw but I don't consider it essential to furniture building.

[William Nimmo]

You already know what you are going to do. You are going to research tools and buy the best you can afford. These boards have opinions all over the map.
I love festool tools and did the same thing you did with every tool eventually. As you develop your skills, so does your taste in tools. Check out festools web site and you might get real excited. Unfortunately you will have a lot of people bash festool due to the prices. Usually these bashers never used the tools The best part about buying festool as a beginner is you are buying a system that coordinates together and you are not spending money twice. example I have 2 porter cable routers that I though I liked until I got the Festool Routers. So I have spent money three times to get the great Router, instead of getting the great router and spending money once.
Also I rarely use the band saw, but when I need it, I need it. Other people it is their most used tool. Who's right?

[glenn bradley]

As you anticipated, responses will be as varied as we who respond. Let me relate what I have done that had to be speedily re-done (read wasted money):

$100 contractor's TS - Not really a mistake but, I could've spent my money more wisely. I spent around $300 on add-ons and doo-dads to try to bring the saw to a level that would not create more wa$ted material than furniture parts. With the addition of a good fence, machined pulleys and link belt, PALs, DC modifications, 3 high quality blades, a couple of sleds, etc. I achieved my goal (the 90# sack of cement in the base for mass really help with stability during cuts). For a few hundred more I could have had a usable machine right out of the box and saved a boat-load of time. Aligning a low grade machine is torture.

Cheap router - more vibration that I cared for. Pretty much sold on Milwaukee now but there are many quality routers out there for not that much more than a cheap one.

Cheap benchtop DP - There are very nice benchtop DP's out there. They take up just as much room as a floor model but, if you go benchtop, get a good one.

$80 bandsaw - Got rid of it when I got a 17", realized I'd goofed and picked up a 10" to replace it for smaller work. A single quality 14" saw will do most of what most of us need to do. The price range is frightening ;-)

Bench top jointer - Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha . . . . that joke was on me. Got an 8" now.

I am sure there are many other rookie moves I have more than paid for. Thanks to the experience of the folks here and on other forums I have not made a bonehead buy in years. Thanks everybody, I don't say it enough. In closing I guess I would say that I've learned that one quality tool (not necessarily the most expensive) costs much less than a cheap one that ends up in a drawer.

I thought my shoulder plane was expensive; it has been one of the best values I own. There are others and you will find yours. You don't have to buy Festool to get a good jigsaw but I wouldn't expect much from a B&D. Just take what you learned from your multi-lathe buying experience and apply it here ;-)

[Dan Friedrichs]

If I were in your position, I would buy:

1) The Sawstop PCS (the newest model, which is cheaper but still a full cabinet saw), for about $3k

2) A 8" jointer. If new, I'd buy a Grizz.

3) A lunchbox planer such as the DW734 or DW735

4) A 14" Delta (or "clone") bandsaw.

5) A good router or two.


These tools would hold their value well and wouldn't be a waste of money while on your way to better tools.

Don't waste your money at Home Depot, though - if you can't find quality tools on the used market, you can get much better value than what's available at HD.

[Rick Potter]

I agree pretty much with Dan on the choices. I also concur with the recommendation to build a router table. You can start with a verrry basic one, then then decide what you really need. By the way, it is pretty easy to joint on a router table.

About the table saw, if money is a concern may I recommend a used contractor type Craftsman saw (this is where the screams start). You should be able to find a very nice one for under $200, use it till you decide to get a cabinet saw, then sell it for the $200....no loss. My dad built beautiful mantels with his.

If this sounds good to you, look for one with the motor hanging out the back on a belt, with cast iron wings and at least a 1 HP motor. Check the arbor by wiggling the blade sideways....no play. Run it, and make sure the adjustments for angle and up and down work smoothly. Stay away from the rust buckets, there are thousands of these out there, and I guarantee you will find one on Craigs list within a month.

Upgrade it with a Gates segmented belt, or a link belt, and get a set of PALS from Inline. These are cheap, and allow you align the saw quickly and accurately.

Table saw, router, band saw, DeWalt 735 planer and jointer in that order for me.

Hope this helps.

Rick Potter

[Lance Norris]

For my answer... the bandsaw is used more than my TS. If I was starting over, I would make do with only a bandsaw. Dont misunderstand, I use my TS, but could do everything I do with a bandsaw and circular saw and guide rail. After that, a jointer and planer are very helpful.

[Billy Chambless]

For my answer... the bandsaw is used more than my TS. If I was starting over, I would make do with only a bandsaw. Dont misunderstand, I use my TS, but could do everything I do with a bandsaw and circular saw and guide rail. After that, a jointer and planer are very helpful.

Ditto.

Actually, I did start over, and the only stationary machines I use are a 17" bandsaw and a lunchbox planer -- unless the dust collector and air filter count as "machines".

There are dozens, of not hundreds, of variable involved in choosing tools, so the answer is usually very individual.

With that said, I think Joshua should get a Sawstop cabinet saw AND at least a 17" bandsaw.

[Jacob Reverb]

Don't forget a good machinist's combo square and 6" rule (Starrett) and some various bar stock for cutting joints.

[Jerome Hanby]

On the Table saw/router table. If you use a wing on the table saw or the router, you can look for a good table saw with a less than stellar fence (hopefully would save you some bucks) and buy the Incra Joinery system for the table saw and get double duty from it with the router!

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I routed a recess, reinforced the wing and made my SS extension wing into a router table. Now I need to make a sacrificial fence. Dust collector....

[Paul Johnstone]

I have used a contractor's saw for 15 years and never felt the need to upgrade it, even though I have the financial means to do so (if I really wanted to). A shark guard is a great upgrade to any table saw.

If you want to "buy once", I'd suggest getting a nice 8" jointer and a floor standing planer too. Those are the big items to get you started.
Edit: oh yeah, a router and a homemade router too is an excellent suggestion.

You can buy a drill press, spindle sander, drum sander, and bandsaw later.
I'd recommend buying a floor standing drill press vs a desktop.
Actually, you can watch the used list for those. You may want to get a Kreg jig if you are building cabinents. It makes it so much easier.