carvewright owner and want to go bigger?????

[Steve Dehart]

I own a carvewright and i enjoy using it, I have a few items that i carve in 3-D that i sale, been thinking about going all out and mass producing, so i need a bigger cnc router one question among others is Speed of cnc router. It takes 34 minutes to carve the item that i am selling now in
(3-D) . I need to gain on the speed of the carve to actualy make any money with it.. Do the CNC Routers out there Carve any faster than the carvewright ? and i am not talking about 2-D , or 2.5 -D.
Also what do you all recomend for 3-D carving, I have read several of the post on here .
I am not wanting to spend over $20,000. any suggestions.
thanks Steve

[james mcgrew]

for the most part a carveright is a quick little machine, i went bigger and even thoug i cannot say it carves small pieces say 50% faster, i can set 10 pieces up on the table and go cut the grass when i get back i have 10 pieces done!! i also have increased the scope of what i do by 1000% in the process

jim

[Ed Lang]

I have a ShopBot PRTalpha96 which is a 4'X8' machine. I have had it for three years, getting close to 4. I am looking at new, stronger and faster machines right now. One thing I have done is to create a 3D file and toolpath it for each machine I go to see. I ask to have it cut either before I get there or after I leave. I want to see the machine run and test for stiffness and flex while I am there. One thing I have learned so far is there is a small difference in the cut speed of the $20K machines for 3d work. Some do run smoother than others. There is a larger difference in cutting 2d parts on these machines. Some are quite weak while others seem OK. When you move up to the next price point of just over $20K and look in the $30K - $40K machines there is a big difference in speed and stiffness. Is it worth it? depends on your needs.

You might be better served in the short term of 1 to two years to buy a second or third Carvewright so you can increase production in the same amount of time.

If you can figure out how to take your file and make to so I can cut it on a ShopBot, I will be happy to do so and send it to you with the time it took to cut. That way you will be able to see if a $20K machine is what you really want.

Let us know what you decide.

[james mcgrew]

ed is right on point, i would just start studying and going to see cnc's in your area, those who have them love showing them off!!

post a photo of a typical file and we can run something similar and check time.

also look at vectrics site

www.vectric.com

jim

[Steve Dehart]

thanks guys for the info,
I had thought about more carvewrights to increase production but they are so tempermental, they are great machines and i love playing with them , they still have a few bugs to work out with the machine and software. not to mention how loud they are. But at the price of getting into cnc router they are wonderful , you just need to be able to work on them now and then.
It is good to know that even the bigger cnc routers will not cut that much faster than Carvewright with 3-D files
Maybe 8 carvewrights working at once would be better than a larger cnc.
I would love to visit and see anyones cnc router in the Arkansas area if there are any out there?
Steve

[james mcgrew]

steve, i have a carveright and would never suggest production of any kind with this machine, 8 machines = 8 headaches

hang, if there is that kind of production have joey at camaster build you a 5x machine with 4 or 5 z heads runing simutaniously!!!

jim

[Kendall Stokke]

i have two carvewrights and can say if you install a rock chuck and get rid of the qc that come with the machine your noise level will drop dramatically. i put rocks on both of mine and with both running it is still quieter that the first machine with a qc.

i dont do production work but i can crank out a few projects with two machines running.(with the rock it also seems i have less problems cause vibration is reduced also.

one more thing to think about maybe if the size of the projects you want to mass produce. i have watched videos of the bigger cnc and lick my chops thinking how great one would be and the bigger projects you could produce. only thing else to think of would be if you business doesnt pan out would it be easier to get rid of one large cnc or 8 smaller carvewrights?

good luck and hope you adeventure works out for you


kendall

[Steve Dehart]

Kendle I have thought about which would be easier to get rid of if things dont work out, and in conclusion i think the Carvewright will be easier to get rid of, But as well the size limitation the Carvewright is very limited as far as width in my concern, I have ran across a few things that would like to carve that would be over 14 inches in width .
I have had a few problems with Carvewight but i have always been able to fix them with the help of LHR. and forum. ( AND MONEY !!!)
Just not sure about how many hours can be expected with life of carvewright, lots of variables.
I like the Idea of eight machines humming ( dont have rock chuck as of yet) But would hate to have eight headaches.
Steve

[Dave Garcia]

Steve,

There are a lot of great comments in this thread. Being a CarveWright owner myself, I have to agree with just about all of them, especially the comments on the Rock Chuck. Without going into the particulars vibration is the downfall of the CW. Noise is the second for many other reasons than actual carving.

Based on everything you've said in this thread, along with all of the comments from others, getting three CW's, replacing the original QC with the Rock Chuck, my feeling is that you'd have a pretty good production type shop.

Now having said that, the CW is NOT a production machine. It was never meant to be from the beginning. A 14.5" wide board is about all you can get out of it. That board can be nine miles long but......... I think you get my point.

But once you get the Rock Chuck mounted I do believe that most of your problems will be done away with. Could be wrong, but I've had my machine for two years now and the Rock has made all the difference, especially the noise, loose trucks, bad carvings, heat build up on the flex shaft and on and on.

Also check out the CNC Art Guild of American forum. Jason Allen has done a great job with this web page.

Good luck! And if you should have any specific questions please send a PM my direction and I'll get more specific.

Dave Garcia
The Wood Block, Ltd

[travis howe]

Steve, et, all... well I have to say, hearing someone enjoy the carvewright and some having several of them make me think maybe I, as a real "hobbiest" might enjoy it more than all the horror stories I've heard about the machine???

Any thoughts on the pain others have seen/been through w/ the machine? Have the newer models been better? Recommendations on where to purchase it from, directly from CW or though a cheaper vendor?

Thanks!

sorry to change the subject....seemed like a good group to ask!

Travis

[Steve Dehart]

Travis, you must expect to work on them a little but the forum will help alot, also LHR will help alot.
I went ahead and bought one off of ebay about 10 minutes ago It needs work , owner had problems but with a little patience and a little money i can get it going ( I hope)
on my way to either 8 Humming machines or 8 Bad headaches
Steve

[AL Ursich]

AL here Digitalwoodshop on the CW Forum. I have 3 with 2 operational and one needing some parts I took to keep the others running.

My vote is for 8 CW's... In the current configuration with the Rock Chuck it is in my opinion a very reliable machine. Dust collection is a must. The I Switch to turn on and off the dust collection is a future project for me.

I have not had the need this year to run 2 machines at the same time but it looks like things are picking up and I will be running 2 shortly.

Since you have a project that works with the CW and just need more production ability then I would get more CW's.

Second hand CW's have sold for as little as $500.00 lately needing some tender loving care. I would love to get a 4th in the next few months at that price and fix it.

I saw a 8 head CNC just up the road from me about 6 weeks ago. Guy from New Wave Woodworking gave me a tour. That is serious CNC... Plus he had 2 other table versions. He posted the 4th Axis work about 8 weeks ago.

I have posted here in the past the weaknesses of the machine. The Rock single handily solved I believe 80% of the problems caused by vibration and QC Bit Fluter Problems. TRASH the QC... You will see....

I need a 3rd Rock.... Order one and try it... Don't like it, I will buy it from you and you can go back to the QC.... My CW sounds like a 3/8 inch drill.... Ducting the Muffler Exhaust into a Dust Collector system or even back drafting a unplugged Vacuum Cleaner cuts the noise and still filters due to the vacuum filter. Gets rid of that SHRILL of the motor fan.

Good Luck with your decision.... 1000 customers satisfied with a product and service tell 10 people in total.... 10 people unhappy with a product and service tell 10 Thousand People..... You are seeing the 10 people and focusing on them and making a decision based on that.... And 5 of the 10 don't have a background and don't understand the machine to be able to repair it and get caught up in "I want it NOW" reply from LHR Customer Service.

Imagine if everyone had to call DETROIT with any Car Problem they had.... Having Local Service makes keeping cars working so much easier...

It is not all that bad of a machine. Keep standard repair parts in stock and be happy.....

Sand Paper Belts
Idle pulley for the cog belts
A extra Board Detector. The new Glued boards are better plus the rock solves that too.
Cut Motor Brushes every 250 Cut Hours
Cut Motor in case a case cracks
Power Supply
Door Switches
X Termination board
Y and Z Motor
X Plastic Drive Gear
A new Flex Shaft A Kinked spring burn up one on me.... I damaged the spring.
A few roller bearings and screws for the trucks. Have 2 frozen on machine 3 from redwood dust and MY humidity.

Remember the QC and it's VIBRATION caused the.....:

Stuck Bit Holders
Thrown Bits while running
Bits that flutter due to BB Marks in the bit holders
Bits broken due to BB marks and Bit fluter
Failed L2 Coils on the power supply.
Failed C1 Cap on the X Termination Board
Failed Board Detectors, LED's snapping off
Loose Screws
Poor Quality Carvings.... Fuzzy's....

You get the point.... Had LHR not invented the QC and just built the machine with a standard 2 wrench chuck and locking rings like I did for standard bit depth control, they would have never been trashed by high failures of the machine and all the bad press.....

There are over 20K units out there and seriously looking at the forum, there are just a few real problems. Many days go by with no real troubleshooting posts in the forum.....

Things that will see more press time in the next few months that I have already seen with over 1000 carving hours is the shell of the cut motor cracking. I found machine 1 with a broken case the other day when I was changing brushes. This picture is from last year, with my first motor failure... This is my 3rd motor failure.

I would love to see RJustice from the CW Forum make a Router Bushing insert that mates up to the Flex Shaft outer shell. And a Square Drive to install into a small trim router. This would be used to replace the cut motor. I would mount it above and behind with the flex just drooping to the Chuck. I would mount a magnet and the motor sensor so the machine knows the speed.

Will this guy ever shut up...... Well, I like my CW's.... O' I broke my first Flex Shaft Core the other day.... Simple fix since I ordered 2 center shafts 2 years ago...

Good Luck with your decision.

AL

[Guy Mathews]

Steve, our shop has close to 400K in CNC machines, laser scanners, software, computers, and interactive hardware. The talent is priceless. Bottom line, your Carvewright can be used for production if you need them to be. It is a tool just the same as a plunge router or a rasp. If you can get them for such a great price like Al has said then do it! When Al came to our shop I stated that I could actually use a Carvewright and the software that comes with it for certain applications. Al has been kind enough to offer me a working and licensed copy of the design software and I have yet to take him up on it.

Many times I have a 40K machine tied up for 8 hours because I am only using a small corner where I am running a 10 inch wide 36 inch long board with a bunch of on-lays arrayed on them. A used 500 dollar Carvewright would increase my production schedule very quickly. Should I? Well if I want to learn new software and setup procedures, Yes! I just do not have time right now.

Get yourself some more Carvewrights and keep them busy. When you get the extra cash from profits, reinvest in your company and get yourself a big machine and take the plunge. You will have a few months of learning curve and during that time the Carvewrights will still make money for you. Plus, if a Carvewright breaks down, the others keep working. If your new big machine goes down, and it will... contrary to opinions on this and other forums, you are not making any money! As a matter of fact, you will be spending it.

In the meantime, AL is your source for Carvewright advice concerning production.

One last thing, if you ever do get a big machine and set it up to run a bunch of small parts, do not go out and cut the lawn. These machines, even Carvewrights, should never be run unattended and to even suggest that you could go mow the lawn is asinine! (Websters definition: 1 : extremely or utterly foolish <an asinine excuse>)

I have had 2 fires on my ShopBot because of an incorrect approach speed and a bit spinning at 15K-rpms. An asinine mistake on my part! Coupled with a vacuum table, these machines start a fire in the dampest of environments thanks to a well known fact called friction. In my case, both fires started while I was standing right at my ShopBot and were extinguished so quickly, that I never even had to replace the spoil board. I can not begin to fathom what may have happened in our shop had I gone to the office to change a file, but I know someone who can.

As for the carving speeds. Your little guy is probably just as quick as my big machines. Good carvings take time because of the bit sizes. I use a 1/32 inch end mill for detail work and it takes time. You can register over at camheads.org and see a lot more of my work in the photo album I have over there. User ID gjmathews. I have tried for the last few months to put up as much of my new work as possible. I figure people would get tired seeing the same photo over and over again so I always try to post something new and exciting.

Below are some carved tapered flute legs I just carved yesterday on the 4th axis. They take around 29 minutes each and I could make 10 of them on my big machine in 29 minutes, but I only needed 4 custom sized legs so the CAMaster or ShopBot is the better choice, but the table on either machine is now out of production for a minimum of 3 hours when you account for setup and proof times.

Another factor to consider is the way they come off the machine is a lot different then the way they look when you sand them. Photos of just finished pieces don't bode well with me. It creates the illusion that the machine did everything.

You can use a smaller stepover and add to your machine time to limit your sanding time and vice-versa. Only experience will truly tell you what works best for you and that comes with time.

There is no magic software that allows you to just do it. There is no magic machine that allows you to just do it. Each and every machine comes with advantages and disadvantage and you will encounter pluses and minuses with each and everyone. My 10 spindle (not 8 Al) cost around 250K and I could make 1,000 engraved wooden poker chips in just under 20 minutes. Before I can do that however, I will have to spend close to 40 hours developing the jigs, programs and finishing techniques to hold the stock and finished chips in place before I can even cut the first chip.

With this idea now public, you, Al or anyone else could achieve the same results in just a little more time by making a larger sled and implementing 10 Carvewrights at a cost of 20K new. The remaining 230K would be sitting in your money market making money for you. To be honest, this idea is probably already being done by some other inventive soul.

Someone with a large table could do the same thing by making one custom built large jig that does the same thing and use G54 and G55 offsets and sub-routines to achieve the same results however, that machine will now run the length of the program times the number of loops.


Long story short Steve, The grass is not always greener because the mower is bigger, especially if the mower catches fire!

Make money with what you know, in this case, your Carvewright and use the profits to grow! If you can keep 5 Carvewrights running 30 to 40 hours a week you are doing quite well. When you reach that point, treat yourself to a bigger machine and continue to grow. Your Carvewrights will provide the income during the new machine learning curve.

No matter what machines you have, they are just tools. Like all tools, you either know how to use them or you don't. Simple as that. If you don't, you have to learn how to use them. If you do, there is always room for improvement.

All the best Steve and good luck with whatever you decide.

[james mcgrew]

as one who has lit up a cnc table i should agree that it is not a good idea to leave a file (especially mdf) running unattended. and i lit mine up with the router off!!

i will say i trust the carve right a bit more. it is more like leaving the washer running in your house, ( o crap here he comes again lol!) i still will leave the machine within some distance on some materials and since one of mine is sitting just inside the barn i have been known to cut the grass after starting a file, with a 14 acre yard i am never finished.

seriously, i also cannot for one minute advocate leaving a machine running while running files and guy i just could not see you as assinine for any reason

jim

[Steve Dehart]

Thanks Guy and James and all who have replied.
I have decided on more Carvewrights for now . Bought a used one last night needs fixed but it is all just a learning thing.
I wanted to go full time production on a project that i have been working on, and i was studying my options. I can understand downtime costing money and having one machine and it being down would be bad. I realy like your suggestion on running with smaller machines and then graduating to bigger if needed later.
Al i will have to try the rock chuck for sure, I know everybody on carvewright forum are talking good about them, I just havent gone that route because i am not having trouble as of yet with my chuck.
Steve