powertool / handtool workbench combo idea...

[Nathan Callender]

Hey all -

Over the last few months I've been getting to know myself a little better in terms of how I like to work and I think that it will soon be time to start building a custom bench that fits my needs exactly, so I'm looking for some feedback.

I have a 2 car garage that I've taken over, but once this project is finished, I will need to find a system to move the shop to one side of the garage and preferably be able to move all the machines to the walls when not it use (to park 2 cars - I know, the horror!). So, since my TS and router table and bench are the main tools in the shop, I'm thinking about combining them to save space and create a functional piece that can be moved around as needed.

So, here is the idea. It's basically a sturdy base filled out with cabinets. Overall 3'x6'. The TS would go on the left, the router on the right, and on the back would be the bench area for hand work. So, a tail vise or front vise on the back, right corner. There would be bench dog holes running across the back and under the skirt there would be a flip out table for outfeed support that would easily stow away (only 2 feet wide, behind the blade). On the left side, there would be a stowable extension for additional cross cutting support. TS rails would run along the front as usual. The whole thing would be on good lockable casters.

I'd run dust collection to the TS and router through the center, and I'm thinking of putting a sanding table in the middle and piping dust collection to it as well. Electricity would be run through as well and it would have a few outlets for drills, sanders and such.

Now, here's the crazier part. I'm not a fan of cast iron any more. It rusts when I use it and I'm tired of cleaning it up. So, I'm thinking of making the whole top out of some other material, reinforcing the TS area and pulling the trunnions and other internals out of my saw and mounting them on the bench. The benefits are that it won't rust and when using the bench for assembly, there won't be any cast iron to damage pieces if I drop them.

So, has anyone done something like this before? What are your thoughts on functionality, and also on possible materials to use for the bench top? If I could pull this off, the only other tools in the shop would be BS, DP, J/P, DC and possibly lathe so everything should be able to be placed along walls in a useable fashion and I'd only have to pull this into the middle of the floor to work and not have to move any other equipment. I will have another small 2'x3' rolling cart to use as a place to dump stuff to keep the bench clear, which I currently do with my TS now anyway.

Thanks for the feedback on this one.

[Jamie Buxton]

I haven't done this, so here are some thoughts based on conventional benches....

* Your garage floor is not flat. Your bench will rock unless you include a leveling scheme.

* For the bench top, I'd use multiple layers of Baltic Birch. The hardwood interior plies will give you a strong surface to pound on. Plywood, of course, cannot be relied upon to be flat, and flat is an important characteristic for a table saw top. I'd be using the cart's structure to pull the top flat. I'd apply BB to the cart in sucessive layers, rather than fastening the layers together and then applying it to the cart. The latter construction is likely to warp the cart to conform to the top, instead of vice versa.

* I have a shop-made bench which doubles as almost all my tool storage. It weighs a ton. For yours, don't cheap out on the casters. Get really good ones with a high load rating.

[Bob Vallaster]

Here is one man's approach to the multi-functional bench: http://christophermerrill.net/ww/pla...l_Stand_1.html

As far as gutting a saw and remounting trunnions...seems to me you'd forfeit (1) precision inherent in the machined metal top and (2) strength-to-thickness inherent in metal vs wood.
Why not get an aluminum-topped jobsite saw and mount it flush in the new bench? Less hassle, factory milled top, no seasonal movement, and on and on...

BobV

[Nathan Callender]

I haven't done this, so here are some thoughts based on conventional benches....

* Your garage floor is not flat. Your bench will rock unless you include a leveling scheme.

* For the bench top, I'd use multiple layers of Baltic Birch. The hardwood interior plies will give you a strong surface to pound on. Plywood, of course, cannot be relied upon to be flat, and flat is an important characteristic for a table saw top. I'd be using the cart's structure to pull the top flat. I'd apply BB to the cart in sucessive layers, rather than fastening the layers together and then applying it to the cart. The latter construction is likely to warp the cart to conform to the top, instead of vice versa.

* I have a shop-made bench which doubles as almost all my tool storage. It weighs a ton. For yours, don't cheap out on the casters. Get really good ones with a high load rating.

Yeah, I'll need to find some casters that can level. I think I'd prefer the bench sitting on good locking casters IF they can stay steady enough for hand work, but I'm not sure if I could get any that would work. Otherwise, if I have to do a lift of some sort, I think I would use levelers on the legs.

I like your idea of a laminated plywood top. I was thinking about running angle iron across the top (under it, to mount the table saw) to stiffen it as well. Do you think the plywood would stay flat enough to use as a table for the saw? I know some people are super picky on saw flatness and others not so much. I really don't know what a good tolerance would be.

Here is one man's approach to the multi-functional bench: http://christophermerrill.net/ww/pla...l_Stand_1.html

As far as gutting a saw and remounting trunnions...seems to me you'd forfeit (1) precision inherent in the machined metal top and (2) strength-to-thickness inherent in metal vs wood.
Why not get an aluminum-topped jobsite saw and mount it flush in the new bench? Less hassle, factory milled top, no seasonal movement, and on and on...

BobV

Bob, yeah, you're right. I'm only going to try this if I can be reasonably sure I could make the table flat and stable. I thought of the jobsite saw idea, and it's perfect except that I'd want something a little quieter than a direct drive. So, I'll have to look around. The other option would be to find a old junked saw and take the trunnions and motor out. I like my current saw well enough that I would really have a hard time ripping it apart. :-(

Thanks guys for your feedback so far.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

The obvious answer is a granite top saw .

Also if you do ply or something you will lose cut depth capacity because the top will have to be thicker. I personally would not feel comfortable cutting on a table that could possibly flex. The inverse of this where the material flexes is one cause of kickback.

But really cast iron is not so bad. Keep it waxed and wood slides easily and it doesn't rust (at least not here in NC).

[Josiah Bartlett]

Maybe you should address the reason why your tools are rusting in the first place. I have a whole unheated garage full of cast iron tools in rainy NW Oregon and I have no problems with rust. I wax my tables occasionally but I don't bother with much else. If you have enough moisture to cause rusting on cast iron then you also will have a problem with any wood material you make this bench out of. You might want to increase the ventilation in your structure.

[Nathan Callender]

Maybe you should address the reason why your tools are rusting in the first place. I have a whole unheated garage full of cast iron tools in rainy NW Oregon and I have no problems with rust. I wax my tables occasionally but I don't bother with much else. If you have enough moisture to cause rusting on cast iron then you also will have a problem with any wood material you make this bench out of. You might want to increase the ventilation in your structure.

Well, rust is only one of the issues I'm wanting to solve. In all honesty, the table saw is fine until I sweat all over it (try wearing a respirator, ear muffs and working in the alabama summer!) So, if I miss cleaning up any, I'll get a rust mark the next day. It's more annoying than anything else at this point. But, fortunately, if I don't touch the saw, it doesn't rust! :-)

I've thought about just building my saw (top included) into said workbench. So, what would you all think about that? I guess the question is, is it feasible to build a tool station with TS, router, and use the back as a bench for hand tool work? And, get the whole thing mobile? Or is there some other way to save the space?

Thanks!

[Matt Ranum]

...is it feasible to build a tool station with TS, router, and use the back as a bench for hand tool work? And, get the whole thing mobile?


I don't see why not, as long as you have some sort of retractable casters so when you drop it down its solid on the floor. I have a small TS built into a 4'x4' work surface with a router opposite the TS, I don't know why a person couldn't move the router along side the TS then mount a vice on the other side.

Just thinking outloud.

[Greg Cole]

Save yourself the hassle & just take over the garage & park the cars outside. I used to try to juggle everything around in mine to be able to fit at least one car in there... that got old & a growing tool collection made it a PITA. My wife could care less if she parks inside or outside.
If you do or plan to do handwork with planes-chisels etc... you'll be well served to build a more proper bench versus a "jack of all flat spot" kind of bench. Regardless of how you build it, anything you build on it will only be as flat as the bench top. There's tons of info available about benches & usually no need to reinvent anything here.
In regards to rust, wax, wax & wax. My table saw is the Steel City "TiN" coated top so rust is a non-issue there for me.
Combining 2-3 tools in a work station is good for space saving(s), but unless you are very organized with your workflow, you'll find setup & re-setup will be something you do alot of.

[Scot Ferraro]

This can be done -- FWW had an article a couple of years ago that had a mutli-function bench type system with central DC. Not sure if it was moveable or not, but it might give you some ideas. Popular WW also had an article about 13-14 years ago that was a similar concept -- "The Little Shop that Could" -- it was based more on using a portable saw instead of a bigger TS. Again, might be good for some ideas. This workstation was moveable. My neighbor built something like this with a Craftsman/Ridgid contractor saw and it worked well -- took it off the base it came on and mounted it to the left side of the "cart" -- plenty of room to the right of the blade and some outfeed, yet still mobile to move against a wall.

Good luck,

Scot

[Nathan Callender]

Thanks for the feedback. I found the FWW article and it's close to what I want, but I think this is definitely doable. I'll just need to beef up the construction and add a thicker top, and of course get it on a base that allows the bench to sit directly on the floor when in use.

One other question I had and couldn't find a quick answer. For a workstation like this, do you all think it's better to have the router extension on the left or right side of the table saw. I see pros and cons on each way - maybe the answer is to have both!

[Wilbur Pan]

Unless you're really tall, the main issue with combining a power tool workbench with a hand tool workbench is that the optimal height for a hand tool workbench is often lower than the typical height of a table saw/router table.

If you are looking for a bench to do hand planing or chopping with chisels, you'll want to have it lower to the ground than your typical table saw height for optimal efficiency, again assuming you're not really tall.

[Greg Hines, MD]

Here is how I made my workbench mobile and yet stable. I used 4x4s for the legs, and bored a hole into the bottom end of each one. In this, I mortised a nut for a 1" bolt. The nut was then epoxied into the mortise. With this arrangement, I can adjust the bench for an uneven floor.

To make it mobile, I attached casters from one of the Woodcraft sets intended for moving around your contractors saw. These fixture allow you to lift the bench onto the casters to move it, and then release the mechanism, so that it sits on its own four feet.

My only criticism with this arrangement is that the round casters seem to be fairly soft, and will scratch or scar with rolling it around on rough cement of my driveway. When they finally die, I will replace them with urethane wheels, I think.

Doc

[Nathan Callender]

Unless you're really tall, the main issue with combining a power tool workbench with a hand tool workbench is that the optimal height for a hand tool workbench is often lower than the typical height of a table saw/router table.

If you are looking for a bench to do hand planing or chopping with chisels, you'll want to have it lower to the ground than your typical table saw height for optimal efficiency, again assuming you're not really tall.

Wilbur - that's a really good point. I first built my current bench (not a woodworkers bench) at 39 inches which was comfortable but a little high. Now it's at 36 inches and serves as a (poor) outfeed table for my table saw. I don't mind doing hand tool work on it, and honestly I don't do a lot so maybe it's not a big deal, but I probably should try to test some different heights to see what I really like before building the bench. I'll have to devise a way to do that without much time into building something.

I did see a thread on an adjustable height workbench - maybe I could have the back half drop a few inches to accomodate that. BTW, what is a good all around height for hand tool work? I'm about 6'.

[Nathan Callender]

Here is how I made my workbench mobile and yet stable. I used 4x4s for the legs, and bored a hole into the bottom end of each one. In this, I mortised a nut for a 1" bolt. The nut was then epoxied into the mortise. With this arrangement, I can adjust the bench for an uneven floor.

To make it mobile, I attached casters from one of the Woodcraft sets intended for moving around your contractors saw. These fixture allow you to lift the bench onto the casters to move it, and then release the mechanism, so that it sits on its own four feet.

My only criticism with this arrangement is that the round casters seem to be fairly soft, and will scratch or scar with rolling it around on rough cement of my driveway. When they finally die, I will replace them with urethane wheels, I think.

Doc

Greg - I had the same idea for the adjustable legs! I'm glad to know it'll actually work. I'll have to check out the woodcraft casters to see if I could integrate them into my current bench plan.

I got some of the reframing done on my kitchen project this weekend and I'm going to hopefully get it completed this coming week! So, hopefully I'll have cabinets up in a few weeks and can start working on some of these 'workshop' type of projects to make the other projects more enjoyable!