What is the dislike of biscuit's all about?

[Stephen Edwards]

This is a very interesting thread to me. Though I have no personal interest, myself, in the purist approach to building reproductions, I do appreciate and understand those people who have decided to follow that path. It just ain't my thing nor is it something that many others on this forum concern themselves with.

I enjoy building a few pieces from that past that would now be called "primitive" pieces, though I don't do anything to "age" them or even to make them look exactly like a home made piece that was built 100 or more years ago. In fact, I'm thankful to have modern tools (including biscuits sometimes!) to use when building them. I just happen to like the designs and simplicity of many of these old tables, benches, cupboards, etc.

They aren't intended to be reproductions nor do I advertise them to be. When I build these pieces I frequently think of them as "contemporary primitives". I've often thought that perhaps I should advertise my sideline woodworking business as Oxymoron Woodworking. At least the moron part would be correct!

[Mike Henderson]

That's not what I wrote, though there's no doubt that the written word leaves something when communicating. Perhaps a better way to put it is "the folks on this forum" (who build furniture) are a rarity among woodworkers.

And it's not at all that "very few woodworkers make "proper" reproductions - if you read through my posts, it should be clear that I don't think that what folks make aren't "proper", "useful" or "to be admired" - they are all of those things. And I make lots of things that aren't reproductions.

What my posts were aimed at was pointing out that the use of the term "reproduction", when applied to a piece from the age of handwork that is made with modern means, surfaces, and materials isn't proper - they are modern representations.

But I think you know this - argumentation is such fun.

And the point I'm making is that there's no agreed upon definition of "proper reproduction". It seems that the only definition is "It's what I make and not what you make".

Until there's some agreed upon definition, if somebody wants to say they make reproductions, I'll say "Good for you - keep at it and post pictures."

Mike

[John M Bailey]

I thought I might take the time to read this complete thread carefully and come up with a thoughtful, witty response reflecting my views on the subject. But, I do not have time, I am headed to my shop to finish my son's new bedroom furniture.

[Randall Clark]

If you want to take my biscuit joiner away from me, you'll have to pry it from my cold, dead hands!





Wait . . . I'm sorry. I thought this was the NRA forum. Never mind.

[Cary Falk]

WOW, I guess I should sell all of my power tools because I am not worthy to make woodworking my hobby. I didn't realize that I am lazy because I don't take the time to learn the proper use of hand tools. I call it efficient. Lets all grab a stone and tie it to a stick and use that. That's where it started, right?

"Authentic reproduction" by definition an oxymoron. It is a term made up by the elitist, I mean the purest. I have a biscuit jointer. I don't use it all the time, but it comes in handy. I have seen several edge joints fail at the glue line. A biscuit would have prevented that. Who GARA about a joint that nobody is going to see if it holds up.

Well, I'm off to "play" with my tools since that's all I'm qualified to do.

[Leigh Betsch]

I'm getting so confused. I don't know if I should if I should head down the road with my draft horse and my ax to start on a reproduction or if I should head out to the shop turn on the electric lights and blast a few biscuits into something and wait for it to fall apart. Sorry just trying to poke a little fun.
For what its worth, I use biscuits when I want alignment. Woodworking is such a great sport, room for everyone no matter how they like to work, or what they like to build.

[Ron Bontz]

Hmmm. This has been an interesting topic. My idea of an "Authentic Reproduction" is using the same type of joinery, finish and glue as the originals. Hence I do not make repos. As far as biscuits.... I use them from time to time depending on what I am gluing up. I usually use reversible glue joint bits or 3/8" tongue and groove on long grain glue ups. Router table or shaper. It is almost as fast and it helps with line up. In the end you make do with what you have.

[Brian Effinger]

From Webster's dictionary:

• Main Entry: re·pro·duc·tion
• Pronunciation: \ˌrē-prə-ˈdək-shən\
• Function: noun
• Date: 1659

1 : the act or process of reproducing; specifically : the process by which plants and animals give rise to offspring and which fundamentally consists of the segregation of a portion of the parental body by a sexual or an asexual process and its subsequent growth and differentiation into a new individual
2 : something reproduced : copy
3 : young seedling trees in a forest
synonyms reproduction, duplicate, copy, facsimile, replica mean a thing made to closely resemble another. reproduction implies an exact or close imitation of an existing thing <reproductions from the museum's furniture collection>. duplicate implies a double or counterpart exactly corresponding to another thing <a duplicate of a house key>. copy applies especially to one of a number of things reproduced mechanically <printed 1000 copies of the lithograph>. facsimile suggests a close reproduction often of graphic matter that may differ in scale <a facsimile of a rare book>. replica implies the exact reproduction of a particular item in all details <a replica of the Mayflower> but not always in the same scale <miniature replicas of classic cars>.

Reproduction implies an exact or close imitation of an existing thing. Duplicate implies a double or counterpart exactly corresponding to another thing.

[Sean Nagle]

My mother-in-law was an antiques dealer for the better part of 40 years. In their vernacular, a reproduction is a piece "in the style of" an original. A piece that would take an expert to distinguish from the original is considered "a copy".

[Chip Lindley]

I've heard New Yankee Workshop has undergone some changes. I am not privy to them presently because my satellite tv package doesn't include PBS.

Don't get me wrong, I like Norm! But at one point, say 10 years ago, biscuit joiners not withstanding, Norm was bent on attaching everything (but a butt joint) with a nail gun! I was a bit put off by it all. And if i'm not mistaken, labels were very much in evidence then.

No doubt PBS' non-profit status caused them to take exception to the advertising created by Tool Brands being flaunted before the camera each week. Underwriters afterall, benevolently contribute money for a worthy cause. Underwriters get only the benefit of the good will created when their name is mentioned at the beginning and ending of each program.

Accordingly, it is no wonder NYW is in financial difficulty. Consumer tool companies insist on more than just a brief mention to get their bang for the philanthropic buck! ....Ahh, IF only Bill and Melinda Gates were woodworkers....

[Cody Colston]

No doubt PBS' non-profit status caused them to take exception to the advertising created by Tool Brands being flaunted before the camera each week.

I don't recall ever seeing tool brand names displayed on the NYW...I believe they have always been hidden per PBS guidelines.

You are right about the show being in a bit of trouble, though. In the recent WOOD article about Norm, he said that Delta-PC was their only remaining underwriter.

That's about how it goes, though. Shows like "Barney" or "Clifford the Big Red Dog" will continue to be aired while the NYW will die of natural causes...lack of funding.

Our PBS station (KERA Dallas/Ft. Worth) pre-empts NYW so often that I only get to record one or two episodes a month already. Bummer.

[Billy Chambless]

One of the reviewers said he could have no respect for anyone who used biscuits in joinery.

That's just silly.

fwiw, I don't use them, but gimme a break. "No respect"?

[David Keller NC]

I've heard New Yankee Workshop has undergone some changes. I am not privy to them presently because my satellite tv package doesn't include PBS.

Don't get me wrong, I like Norm! But at one point, say 10 years ago, biscuit joiners not withstanding, Norm was bent on attaching everything (but a butt joint) with a nail gun! I was a bit put off by it all. And if i'm not mistaken, labels were very much in evidence then.

No doubt PBS' non-profit status caused them to take exception to the advertising created by Tool Brands being flaunted before the camera each week. Underwriters afterall, benevolently contribute money for a worthy cause. Underwriters get only the benefit of the good will created when their name is mentioned at the beginning and ending of each program.

Accordingly, it is no wonder NYW is in financial difficulty. Consumer tool companies insist on more than just a brief mention to get their bang for the philanthropic buck! ....Ahh, IF only Bill and Melinda Gates were woodworkers....

I'm rather hoping that financial difficulties of Norm's show will work itself out according to the economy gradually improving. My guess is that the WW machine tool companies (as well as the handtool companies) have seen a steep decline in sales as all consumers pulled back on spending, and they were looking to cut advertising expenses as much as possible.

My guess is that will be a temporary situation. While the rules of PBS are a bit stricter than those followed by WW magazines, most folks I know are well aware that Norm's show is sponsored by Delta and Porter Cable (who's now part of Black and Decker, I think). I've been told before that most of the high dollar machines in Norm's shop were gifts, though the giver knew that logos would be blocked out.

It sure would be a depressing Saturday in the fall without back-to-back episodes of The New Yankee Workshop and The Woodwright's shop.

[Dan Karachio]

Thanks for the info Dave and for staying out of the kitty scratching. Norm is certainly not the pinnacle of wood working craft, but come on, biscuit joinery or not, the guy pioneered so much and has a show that has probably motivated and inspired more people into woodworking than anyone else, certainly more influence than the snobby critics. That certainly benefits all of us with a broader consumer market to support the design, building and sale of so many new tools, both power and hand. As for joinery and brads, anyone who really gets into woodworking will certainly discover other methods include more authentic ones - I mean they aren't just going to watch Norm are they?

It's so easy to critique without having anything to offer. So if you don't like it, go make your own damn show and see who will pay for it let alone watch it.

[Cody Colston]

it's so easy to critique without having anything to offer. So if you don't like it, go make your own damn show and see who will pay for it let alone watch it.

Hear, Hear