Black Maple? Caramelized Maple?

[James Adinaro]

OK all,

I was at my local lumber dealer this weekend, and they had something in stock they were calling "Black Maple". I think in some other places, they might call it "Caramelized Maple" (which makes me think of pancakes, but that's something else all together).

It's basically maple (soft, I think), that has been heat treated somehow so that the color resembles walnut. Kind of a medium-dark brown. The color goes all the way through the board, so you can't cut or sand it off.

But speaking of cutting, it smells like... burnt... when you cut it. The dealer told me it was somewhat more brittle than regular maple, but otherwise similar. They had some frame and panel doors they had put together with it, and they seemed fine. It was going for $4.25/bf, so I picked some up and am going to try to build a mirror with it. It's in the shop acclimating now.

Has anyone worked with this stuff? Should I be concerned about the burnt/brittleness? Will it take glue OK? Finishing? I'm wondering if it would be OK to use in a load-bearing application like a chair, table, or entertainment center?

I'm interested in any experience anyone may have with this stuff. Picture attached.

Thanks - James

[Peter Quinn]

We use it a lot in several species, mostly red oak (marketed as toasted oak), though we have used birch, poplar, maple, and a few others. It is very brittle, it glues OK, it seems to fall apart in places where it has been cooked too hard especially in oak that is QS. We use tite bond III with no issue, particularly cooked pieces have been moistened at the joint lines slightly and glue applied liberally. We use 5/4 glued up for stair treads and have done a few more complicated things with it but no doors yet, mostly flooring and other millwork.

I just made some door saddles to match a floor and they finished fine with your basic poly, though I would recommend a seal coat as the wood is so dry it just sucks th first coat of finish up. We made sample panels for flooring from every species the supplier had available and I think birch was my favorite visually.

[Mike Parzych]

It's most commonly retailed as "roasted" maple - you could probably google up something inder that term. And I guess a couple other species are also offrered "roasted." Frankly, I don't know what the advantage of using it might be besides the color - which you could attain thru several methods.

[David DeCristoforo]

I hate to have to be the one to say this but that is one "butt ugly" piece of wood! It's "quarter sawn" which, in maple, yields about as "plain jane" a grain pattern as one could imagine. The color is hideous! I would much prefer to see a piece of "fumed" or stained QS white oak which would have much more "life".

[John Keeton]

Well, I won't go so far as David (even though I may be in agreement.) But, I guess what confuses me is that they go to the effort to "cook" a piece of wood, changing its structural integrity, and making it much more difficult to work with - and the end result is no different than obtained with a dye application What is the deal??

I think I would much prefer to work with good ol' maple, get the project finished, and then go thru a finish schedule. I don't have to be concerned about the textural changes, whether the glue will bond, finishing querks, etc.

But, apparently there is a market! Let's hear it for capitalism!!

[Eddie Darby]

If you go to one of the sponsors web-pages, they have Caramelized/roasted maple.
I've seen this roasted maple done to the point of almost black.
A nice smell to the wood as well.

http://kjpselecthardwoods.com/Wood%2...ed%20maple.htm


It is a little more brittle, but if it's not carrying a load, then it should be fine.

[Ryan Stagg]

They do this with bamboo flooring - "carbonized" is the term in that biz.

I would guess that maybe it is advantageous in flooring, where you might expect to refinish the work several times over its lifespan? That way, if you use a clear finish you still have predictably dark results? Dents and dings won't show up lighter?

[Paul Bombardt]

Okay, my answer is years too late, but for someone searching on this forum, here is the skinny on this wood. It is called 'caramelised' wood or thermowood, and the purpose of heating to between 180-230 deg Centigrade is to render it impervious to water. It also gives it the brown color. I recently bought a bath brush from a German company called Redecker which specializes in these thermowood brushes...they provided the info above.

[Chris Padilla]

Interesting...I've never seen nor heard of that before although I'm familiar with finishing wood that way with a torch.

[Peter Quinn]

Okay, my answer is years too late, but for someone searching on this forum, here is the skinny on this wood. It is called 'caramelised' wood or thermowood, and the purpose of heating to between 180-230 deg Centigrade is to render it impervious to water. It also gives it the brown color. I recently bought a bath brush from a German company called Redecker which specializes in these thermowood brushes...they provided the info above.

All the sales pitch names wood marketers give are "cute" but not entirely accurate. I believe its accurately called "torrefied wood" or in more general terms "thermally modified". It does involve maillard reactions such as when you brown meat in roasting pan, which in that case involves a high heat reaction of amino acids and sugars. So maybe caramelized is close? But that sounds more like the marketing weenies than the actual wood guys at work. The same marketing weenies are calling ammonia fumed oak "smoked oak" presently. Don't want to alarm the wealthy green beens with environmental sensitivities by telling them you are unleashing a hell storm of poison on their floor and furiture to give it that well urinated on character that is so charming, better use a more pleasant euphemism.....smoked oak! Well, torrified is hardly a roll off the tongue rope em in marketing term, never going to sell that, thermally modified is maybe a little easier to stomach, sounds less like terrified anyway. No, lets call it caramelized! Who doesn't like creme brullee! Or toasted marshmallows.....

Whatever you call it the dark smokey maple is charming with a finish on it IMO. Google torrefied wood for more info, or more accurate info, or both.

[Chris Padilla]

Blackened Maple!!! Mmmmm, sounds tasty!!

[Kevin Bourque]

I know they "flame harden" wood for baseball bats, but I don't understand the reason for this kind of treatment on the OP's maple.

[Peter Quinn]

Blackened Maple!!! Mmmmm, sounds tasty!!

I guess Paul Prudhomme is branching out? I think the torch technique is called Shou Sugi Ban, or Yakisugi. Had to do a sample of that once for a client, kind of fun, verging on scary. Seems it was picked up as a decorative technique by furniture makers some time back but has its roots in a similar motivation, wood preservative. Kevin asked why? Why torrify....two reasons really. It makes the wood more stable by reducing or eliminating movement due to changes in humidity. The cells are cooked way beyond kiln dried, more heat and no oxygen, like the beginning of the charcoal making process, the sugars are converted to something bugs and parasites don't eat. In certain parts of the world pressure treat is either not available or not legal. To think our European friends would find soaking lumber for decking in toxic chemicals offensive? Here we just hope that we are larger and less sensitive organism than those we intend to resist, so it kills them first. But everybody likes decks and out door furniture, and not everyone can afford teak. They market the torrified lumber for exterior millwork, trim, siding, decking. I've seen it sold for guitar necks. And it turns some pretty nasty looking piebald red oak into an even toned cocoa brown thing of beauty. Down side...loss of strength. The maple and birch are still pretty strong, red oak can get a little brittle, they sell poplar like this and it feels like cedar or balsa wood and wears like it too.

[Mel Fulks]

When I first heard about it from a friend it was described as a method of making wood rot resistant. Surprised to see
comments about it being done for beauty.

[James Adinaro]

It's funny this thread has picked back up, years later. Just last week, I was finally going to make some matching pieces, but I didn't have much of the "blackened maple" left. I went to the place where I got it before, but they had quit carrying it. After extensive online searching, I found it. It's a product from Midwest Hardwoods that they call "PhoenixWood", and it's supposed to imitate Peruvian Walnut. You can see their page about it here:

http://www.midwesthardwood.com/mh/sp...nced-hardwoods

My local dealer for Midwest Hardwoods turned out to be the same place I bought the original pieces from. But they were unwilling to let me take any less than 1000bf (their whole order unit). So I gave up on it and found locally some actual Peruvian Walnut for just 75% of the cost of the "roasted maple". As another benefit, besides being cheaper, the real Peruvian Walnut is MUCH easier to work with. I'm not too crazy about the open grain though.

The roasted maple still looks, I think, awesome with just an oil and wax finish. It looks very "old". If I had been able to get that locally, I would have.
For those who really want it, Sharp's Lumber in New Hampshire still has it, and was willing to sell it in quantities of just a few board feet. The shipping to Utah would have made it pretty expensive though.
If I need just a few bf at some point, I will be giving them a call. They've been pretty helpful.