plane set up

[joe oski]

I'm certain its been covered previously somewhere, just not where I'm searching.
I've never been able to get the plane blade to cut parallel to the sole, and always wind up setting it for a really light cut to compensate, and then sanding, sanding, sanding. Basicall rendering it useless for any real work. Not that I'm a great woodworker anyhow.
Please point me to some instructions on setup and use.
I've only learned hand planes from uncles who hack the door till it doesn't stick no more

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Hey Joe...

Tell us a bit more, what are you trying to achieve? Are you "hogging" out with a scrub or trying to get a glass, finished surface?

[scott spencer]

It might also be useful to know more about the plane itself.

[Joel Goodman]

Maybe it's both an lateral adjustment issue and also an issue of camber. Are you having a problem of plane "tracks" - ridges in the surface? If so cambering the blade will help a lot. In terms of lateral adjustment I use a small (1/4 X 2"X 4 or 5") piece of wood and shave it against the blade -- first on the left side and then right side -- adjusting until I have both the shaving thickness I want and an equal shaving on both sides. This takes longer to describe than to do. Cambering is putting a very slight curve on the iron so that the edge of the cut sort of tapers to zero so that there are no ridges in the finished surface. A very sharp blade is also needed for any of this to work correctly. I'm assuming that you are trying to put a finished surface on your project with a plane.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Also, a very flat sole is needed. I know when I started out w/ a Stanley No 5 jack plane, i had a terrible time because the sole was slightly concave at the mouth. This resulted in a very difficult time getting the plane to work nicely.

After much sharpening of the blade and attempting to flatten the sole on a granite slab w/ wet sandpaper, I gave up. My Lie nielsen works perfectly...

There is nothing wrong with any stanley no. 5, my particular one happens to be from the early 80's and rode around the back of a pickup truck i think...my point is, it wasn't really taken care of by the guy my Dad got it from, and when I got it, I put way too many hours into making it try to work. Hence the giving up part and just buying a LN No 5.5. Mmmm....LN 5.5...

[Tom Adger]

When you say "cut parallel to the sole", do you mean that one edge of the shaving is thicker than the other? If that is the case, it sounds like you need to play with the lateral adjustment lever to get the shaving the same thickness all the way across.

[Jim Koepke]

Joe,

Welcome to the Creek, jump on in and hang on as you go down the slope.

I'm certain its been covered previously somewhere, just not where I'm searching.
I've never been able to get the plane blade to cut parallel to the sole, and always wind up setting it for a really light cut to compensate, and then sanding, sanding, sanding. Basicall rendering it useless for any real work. Not that I'm a great woodworker anyhow.
Please point me to some instructions on setup and use.
I've only learned hand planes from uncles who hack the door till it doesn't stick no more

Your profile does not show your location. If you are near me, I would be happy to pay a visit and show you all I know about planes. Should take a minute or two.

You do not mention what plane(s) you are having a problem with.

Also, when taking heavy cuts with a plane, the surface will not be supper smooth. To get the glass like surface some talk about with planes, requires an extremely sharp blade taking a fine cut. Besides, it is not like glass. If you hold it at an angle and look just right at it, it will look mirror like, but at best, you will have some very smooth wood which sanding will not be able to improve.

Everyone eventually finds their own methods for doing the same thing, Joel mentions using a small block to check shavings and a cambered blade. This is something I do with planes like a Stanley 45 or 55. Sometimes I also use it on other planes. John mentions his travails with trying to flatten a sole. All of this is worthy of consideration. My method works for me and will also reveal any problems with the plane.

To start, this is my practice even with a new acquisition. Often if the plane is in usable shape, the following procedures are used to evaluate a plane. These instructions are for the Stanley/Bailey type of plane. They should work for any "bench type" plane. Block planes and specialty planes are a separate matter, but similar in some ways.

The screw for holding the lever cap in place needs to be adjusted to hold the lever cap so the lateral adjuster can be moved when the lever is down. It should not be loose, but it should not take undue force to move. Pressing with your thumb while your hand is on the tote should be enough to make it move.

Set the plane so the blade is just starting to be visible from the bottom of the plane. Look at the blade from the underside of the plane. Does it look parallel to the mouth? This can be an indicator of many things; the blade could be sharpened off square, the frog could be turned from square on it seat, the blade may not be sitting square on the frog, one side of the surface on the frog could be catching the blade more than the other causing the blade to turn as it is being adjusted. or the mouth may not be square to the sole.

With a piece of scrap wood held in a vice, the plane is slowly pushed along the surface, usually an edge but a face will work, while the adjuster is advancing the blade. As soon as shavings start to appear, the plane is checked on either side for the full length of the board. Often, one side is producing a shaving and one side is not. This would require some use of the lateral adjuster or if the plane is a pre-lateral, a few taps with a small mallet or hammer. The Stanley planes have the lateral set up with the disk engaging the blade below the pivot. So, if the blade is cutting on the right and not the left, then the lateral needs to be pushed to the side that is cutting too deep. This can be lot of trial and error. Sometimes, I will run the plane along the edge of a board while adjusting the lever. The plane can be moved from one side to the other while this is being done. The goal is to produce as thin a shaving as possible to the full width of the blade.

This method helps to determine a lot of things about what is taking place.

Important things to consider before and while doing this.

1) Is the blade sharp. This is one reason for attempting as thin a shaving as possible. A dull blade will not be able to cut a super thin shaving. It will produce dust or a thick shaving. If it makes ribbons, then there are likely nicks in the blade. Some woods will produce dust or ribbons when a sharp blade is set for a thin shaving. Find a scrap piece of something like pine of poplar to use for setting up your planes.

2) Is the edge of the blade square to the plane? This is one reason a plane may not cut on one side. The sides of a plane blade are not always parallel. If a blade is fairly square to the sides and the slot is parallel to the sides yet the blade is not coming through the plane square, then there is either a problem with the base or the frog. Most common is the frog being turned in such a way to effect the blade. This will require spending some time getting to know the frog and how it seats.

3) Wood grain has direction and it isn't always going the way it looks. I know this may sound over simple to some, but there are times when it seems like I am going with the grain and the wood is not cooperating. Turn the piece around. Often one piece can have grain reversals. This is especially true if there are any knots in the wood.

When my plan seems to be set, a shaving will be taken off the edge of the board from the left side of the plane and another using the right side of the blade. These are compared. The feel of one shaving compared to another will become just as good as measuring with a micrometer in telling you if the blade is cutting even. My preference is to get a full width shaving.

Another problem can be if the sole is not flat or especially if the sole is not in a plane parallel to the base of the frog. If you are getting uneven shavings across the width of the blade, the sole may need lapping. This is not the same as getting a shaving that is fatter on one side than the other. This would be more like getting a fat shaving at the edges and a thin shaving or no shaving in the center. This could also be caused by an improperly sharpened blade.

Your comment about having to take thin shavings then sanding sounds like you have a sharpness problem to work on.

The only other thing I can think of if you are trying to get a square edge on a board and having trouble with that. squaring a boards edge is a different matter and is something learned with time. I have been doing this for a few years now and I still have to look at my edges and give them a little correction at times.

Planing tracks can be dealt with by not taking thick shavings and then when it is as smooth/flat as it is going to get, go from one side of the piece to the other eliminating any tracks with very light strokes. Some like to camber their blade to take care of this. What ever works for you is the best way to do it.

Without more information, this is about all that I can offer.

More specific explanations of why you feel you have to "take light shavings and then sand, sand, sand" may be of help in finding what can be changed to make your planing more useful for you.

jim

[Prashun Patel]

"Without more information, this is about all that I can offer."

Boy, I'd love to see what you offer with 'more information'...

Thanks.

[joe oski]

Planes aren't handy so I can't give model # even if its on them
I've got an old sears 8" my dad butchered doors with, I've got a stanley 18" my uncle used on wooden boat work, somewhere lost in the moving piles is a stanley about 1 1/2 " wide that cuts up to the left side.(if the son in law didn't borrow that also)

I've attempted to use the 18"er to do a table top, I glued up. Yep I can hack some rotten chips off the high spots, but always wind up with a big piece of 2x3 flat steel from work wrapped in sandpaper. S L O W sanding.

I keep trying to use that stupid arm lever to adjust sideways shaving, push a little push a little more oops to far, use the thumbwheel for depth, tighten clamp- everybody moves - either out to far or not enough to shave anything. GRrrrr maybe no coordination on my part

Have even tried shims under the sole, let gravity drop blade, clamp it---doesn't work either- wasn't expecting it to anyhow

Will have to find and fill in profile!!!!

[Jim Koepke]

Planes aren't handy so I can't give model # even if its on them
I've got an old sears 8" my dad butchered doors with, I've got a stanley 18" my uncle used on wooden boat work, somewhere lost in the moving piles is a stanley about 1 1/2 " wide that cuts up to the left side.(if the son in law didn't borrow that also)

I've attempted to use the 18"er to do a table top, I glued up. Yep I can hack some rotten chips off the high spots, but always wind up with a big piece of 2x3 flat steel from work wrapped in sandpaper. S L O W sanding.

I keep trying to use that stupid arm lever to adjust sideways shaving, push a little push a little more oops to far, use the thumbwheel for depth, tighten clamp- everybody moves - either out to far or not enough to shave anything. GRrrrr maybe no coordination on my part

Have even tried shims under the sole, let gravity drop blade, clamp it---doesn't work either- wasn't expecting it to anyhow

Will have to find and fill in profile!!!!

The Sears 8" may be a #3 or #4 equivalent. The 18" plane is most likely a #6.

When you say, "tighten clamp- everybody moves," it sounds like you are talking about the lever cap. The screw holding this in place should be loose enough that you can make adjustments without unclamping and re-clamping the lever cap. This is different on a block plane, don't worry about that right now. If there is rust or pitting on the the mating surfaces between the blade and where it seats (the frog) this can cause adjustment difficulties.

When I make lateral adjustments, I will often have my left hand's thumb and fingers on both sides of the blade to feel the movement. I will watch the lever and blade to see any movement. It often only takes a very slight movement to make the adjustment. I have even drawn a line on the blade at the edge of the lateral adjuster to watch the movement between the two.

"I can hack some rotten chips off the high spots," sounds like you may have a dull blade. A sharp blade can make all the difference in the world.

Another SMC member has made podcasts that can be watched on line and covers sharpening tools. I have not watched more than a minute or two of these, but I am sure Robert can teach us all few things. I will likely watch them later. There are a few on sharpening.

> http://logancabinetshoppe.weebly.com/podcast.html <

As many woodworkers as there are here, we still all sharpen differently. If we pay attention, we can all learn from each other.

For your personal profile, click on the spot towards the top of the screen that says > User CP < That is the User Control Panel and lets you set your options.

Have fun,

jim

[Prashun Patel]

Depth and lateral adjustment are important, but to this neophyte, the single most important thing is a good, sharp blade. I didn't have my a-ha moment until I got that right.

[Sam Takeuchi]

Like other guys said, until blades are sharpened, they won't work right no matter what. It's not about you coordination or skill, as long as blades are dull, it's as good as broken even for the most skilled woodworker.

Thing is, sharpening is a skill that takes time and effort to develop, so if you want to use hand planes, you need to learn to sharpen over time. And sharpening equipments do cost some money, too. This is a good place to learn about sharpening, there are a lot of info here, but you'll still have to practice.

Once you get blades sharpened, you'll be able to start working with those planes. Until then, there isn't much that can be said to make it better.

[joe oski]

When you say, "tighten clamp- everybody moves," it sounds like you are talking about the lever cap. The screw holding this in place should be loose enough that you can make adjustments without unclamping and re-clamping the lever cap. This is different on a block plane, don't worry about that right now. If there is rust or pitting on the the mating surfaces between the blade and where it seats (the frog) this can cause adjustment difficulties.

Screw should be looser????
Those babys have always been tight as 2 glued boards!
Remember Dad saying "to keep it from moving"

[Sam Takeuchi]

Yes it should be looser. If it's too tight, it'll cause unnecessary stress on the tool as well as making adjustment difficult. It's hard to explain how tight/loose it should be. I guess in my word, it'd be "tight enough that you can't adjust blade by hand, loose enough that depth and lateral adjusters move the blade smoothly without forcing." If you have to unclamp lever cap to make any adjustment, that's just impossible to make fine adjustment in any way and you won't ever make it to work properly except when you get the blade protrusion and lateral position just right by luck.

Fetch your planes, and then loosen lever cap screws so that lever cap is loose even in clamped position. Tighten the screw until you feel a bit of resistance once screw head hit the lever cap. From there, you just screw in ever so slightly, probably 1/8 turn or so ('or so' means it could be little less or little more, but really minute amount). That's about it. You should be able to make depth and lateral adjustment more freely without unclamping lever cap. It might feel too loose, but it should hold. Sharpen blade, and go for a few test cut, if blade stays in position, it should be good. If for some reason blade moves, give a itty bitty turn to tighten. That's about it. Unless there is something wrong with the bedding, you don't need any more than that.

[joe oski]

will have to give looser, moves while clamped a try.
The tight as while clamped (pry clamp with screwdriver) method I was instructed in , definatly sounds wrong now

thanks