Member
Joe,
I think you should watch the 8.5 minute infomercial by Ron Hock. He has great information in it. http://www.hocktools.com/ Pay attention to the sound the plane makes as it takes a shaving off the wood. The paper tearing sound is not a special effect (maybe the way the shaving float up and away is though). He also kind of shows you how tight to make the lever cap.
Contributor
Yes, from the "can hack some chips off the high spots" statement, my thoughts are that the blade is in need of sharpening.Originally Posted by Shawn Patel
I went quite a while before really learning this. Went a little longer before really understanding how to sharpen or what sharpness really can be.
jim
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
[OP]
Member
while my sharpening could still you a little work (can't shave with it)
so far my biggest problem has been getting it to move in a smaller increment.
Loosening the screw may help a lot. I've been moving and then severely clamping it, causing it to make random movements on its own.
Member
i second a good inspection on sharpening. also checking the blade grind angle to make sure it is dead on 90 degrees. once those two things are down pat and a good look is given to adjustment, usually there is no more fettling required.
I polish up my blades (both sides; face and bevel) to a mirror finish before i even attempt to use the plane. personally, i use a leather strop or dead flat board and the yellow flexcut compound to polish depending on the blade shape. for flat blades i use the board. for rounded moulding blades i use the strop on the bevel and the board on the face. strokes are always the opposite of sharpening. whatever you do, dont raise the blade up while polishing the face. this will cause a micro-bevel on a surface that needs to be dead flat.
if this is not helpful, check the sole for flat and winding. you may need to do some work on it.
cheers!
dan
Building my own Legos!
[OP]
Member
additional questions
laid some fine grit paper on the surface plate and polished the bottom. definatly not flat. And my unbranded rabbet plane is twisted.
I have access to a machine shop, and grinders. Is the entire sole supposed to be flat? Stepped. My rabbet has 2 throats
Point me towards some maintenence/ repair area please
Member
The sole (bottom) should be flat -- although opinion differs on how flat is required. But I think we would all agree that flatter is better. For the finest shavings pretty damn flat is needed. It is easy to create a convex sole if one is not careful when lapping -- don't ask me how I know that!
Johnny Kleso's site http://www.rexmill.com/ has some good info as does
http://www.sauerandsteiner.com/news/...ing-sucks.html and
http://www.antiquetools.com/scrape/
The important thing is that the front of the mouth, the toe and the heel are all coplanar. Rexmill has some of David Charlesworth's stuff reprinted which is good info.
Look at the Lie Nielsen site as well http://www.lie-nielsen.com/ and you will also find some good info. If there is any way you can attend a LN event you will learn a lot about planes, get to try some that are set up properly, and can get some hands on sharpening instruction from some great folks. If you go bring your plane and I'm sure they'll give you a hand. These events are free and fun.
Re: the rabbet plane is also supposed to have a flat sole -- if it's a #78 the two throats are to give you an optional "bullnose" position to mount the iron in.
Welcome to the slope!
Last edited by Joel Goodman; 12-01-2009 at 10:05 PM.
Contributor
Just recently bought an interesting POS block plane. It had a concave sole and was vexing me during its trials until a strait edge was put to its sole.
It was actually flexing during the cut and would take a cut at the beginning but would stop cutting as it got further away. With less pressure exerted by my extended arm, the sole would flex up and lift the blade out of the work. This was a plane bought for a dollar with a few other items thrown in at a yard sale.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
Yes, depth and lateral adjustments should be made with the lever cap locked down.
Different folks like different clamping pressures from their lever cap. The tighter it is, the harder it will be to make smooth fine depth or lateral adjustments. For me, I like no more pressure than I'd want on a cupboard snap latch - positive, but a ten year old shouldn't have trouble with it.
If with a reasonably clamped lever cap, adjustments are still difficult, try polishing the upper surface of the frog (wedge shape the blade rests on) and back (bevelled side) of the blade (iron) with autosol or similar. You don't need a mirror finish, but even very light corrosion will make adjustments more difficult.
Check the lateral adjusment lever pivot and depth adjustment screw aren't gummed up - clean with a degreaser, and then use a light oil or copper grease. If the movement feels gritty, you may want to flush with pressurised WD40 or similar.
You should be able to make depth adjustments on the fly - with just your forefinger.
When making lateral adjustments, instead of putting (say) thumb on tote (handle) with finger on lateral adjustment lever and squeezing try putting thumb on adjustment leaver and fingers on the top of the blade and squeezing. This takes the spring from pressuring the tote out of the equation. Thumb and fingers obviously interchangeable - depending on plane orientation and which side you're adjusting towards.
For very fine adjustment, a toffee (very light) hammer is great for subtle lateral adjustments. Obviously, gently tap the side of the blade near the top - not the lateral lever.
[Edit - hadn't seen your comment about sharpness]
If you can't even shave with the blade, which doesn't require a particularly keen edge, it is very blunt. Suggest either using a guide or find someone to show you how to improve the edge.
Last edited by Steve Hamlin; 12-02-2009 at 9:19 AM.
[OP]
Member
"The sole (bottom) should be flat"
Thats the answer I was looking for, although , I keep thinking of my jointer haveing different heights. Will definatly grind it flat.
I did find a matching plane on ebay, its an old sears. Sears stamped in blade but not on body. The acceserys are missing, but wil grind it and use it anyhow.
Now of course I need hints as to how far to get the blade out. Bloody thing does not have a depth adjustment screw. Was contemplating pieces of paper and gravity while clamping.
Unfortunatly I don't have any woodworking buddies around here to ask for show and tell
Member
There have been a couple mentions of the need for a "sharp" blade, but rarely is a definition given. This, in fact, may be your problem, thinking that if the planes were used to "hack off wood", that's how your planes should operate.
My advice is to pull the blade from the plane. Can you shave your arm with it? If you push it across the end-grain of a 2x4 does it make a clean cut? If these things aren't true, then the blade isn't sharp enough and no amount of adjusting will allow it to cut properly.
Cheers --- Larry
Contributor
Yes, a flat sole helps. At this point, knowing more about the plane would help. Pictures of what is missing might also help. Without a depth adjuster or the screw to mount it on, it is no wonder you are having difficulties.
I have some spare Stanley brass adjusters for bench planes.
jim
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
[OP]
Member
You'll have to visit ebay for a image of craftsman rabbet plane. I tried copy and paste and can't get an image to here
My missing parts are an edge stop and depth stop.
Blade adjustment will probably be by brass hammer
Contributor
Posting an image on SMC requires either a URL or an actual image to attach. If there are other ways, I am not aware of them. With a Macintosh, this is easy to do within the system software. With a PC, if it can be done without third party software, no one has been able to tell me how.
If this is the plane you have:
Rabbet Plane.jpg
It does require adjustment by way of light taps with a hammer. This would be a very light hammer and often with a brass head and a hard wood face.
This type of plane is made for hogging off wood for joinery. It is not an ideal plane for surfacing wood. I know this because I tried back in the day when this was one of my only planes. Mine is a Record and does have an adjuster.
jim
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
Joe,
I am going to add my .02 not because I am an expert, actually far from it. Everyone on this forum knows more about planes than I do. But I am still a newbie like you. I got a hand me down stanley #4 about a year ago. Bought a veritas medium shoulder then a #5 stanley off ebay, and then a 62 1/2 block plane. I am still much more and electrical junkie but I use the planes more and more all of the time. Believe it or not they save time over setting up an electrical tool many times. Before I started learning how to use planes I was certian I would buy a drum sander this year. But now I have retired that idea because of my increasing skill with planes. The think that helped me get over that hump of full with shavings was a razor sharp edge. I had tried scary sharp, water stones, but then fell into a real good deal on the work sharp 3000. Using that machine I now have my irons as sharp as kitchen knives. I could shave my face with them. Once I got the irons so sharp the final adjustments came pretty easy. But dont forget all of the other advice from everyone else, a flat sole is also very importanat. Good luck.
[OP]
Member
Jim, yep thats the beast
As long as I'm going to work and grinding the sole(and sides- its twisted), will do my other 2 planes as well.
Now for a dumb computer question:
how come 1/2 my sawmill mail goes to my spam folder where I seldom venture? Like todays
other ques:
1/2 the time when using the link in sawmills email it only displays the last reply and I have to work my way back into the thread to see the other replys.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote