Kickbacks.

[Larry Edgerton]

Karl, you and I would get along just fine I believe, and I do agree with you that some of the safety practices are inherently more dangerous that just "doing it".

What I have come to realize here is that, and if you will remember back to when you first ran a peice across a tablesaw you will know what I mean, that this is a hobbiest forum and so most are still at that point, and many will never do enough to go beyond that point. And that is OK.

What you are hearing is all the safety crap that has been pounded into their head by what the lawyers made writers put in their "How To" books, and as hobbiests they still believe all that they read as gospel as they do not have enough experience to do anything but follow what they have read. And this is a good thing, as the teacher is not there to watch, and they are not trying to make a profit.

I work much the same way you do, but I would not recommend some of my practices to a first timer. I saw a picture of you on your bike, so I know you too are one, accordinated, and two, a bit of a risk taker. Not all people are the same and there are some that should just never be any where near a saw at all. One of the hardest things for me to learn in my construction/woodworking business is that not all people can do what I do. I used to get so aggravated because something was so simple to me, so why can't they just do as I ask? But I eventually learned that that is why I am in the position that I am in and that is why they work for me, because of the difference. It doesn't make us better, just better at our job. When it comes to doing the bookwork, I find where my own limitations are. It is the same thing here on the forum, some will never be at a level where thy are "one with the saw" so to speak, and so they need to be extra cautious to make up for their lack of accordination/experiance.

I do not contribute much anymore because I do things as you do and am tired of the safety Nazi's harping all of the time. Just as there are people that have different levels of driving abilities, the same goes in the shop. Can you imagine the average driver at 200 mph? I have been over 200 several times, but I would not want to see most of the people that I know going that fast and would not recommend that they try.

There is a lot of parroted advice on here that is BS, but its a more constructive way to spend time than watching TV.

By the way, I am missing a finger..........

[Karl Brogger]

There is a lot of parroted advice on here that is BS, but its a more constructive way to spend time than watching TV.

By the way, I am missing a finger..........

And I bet you know exactly what you did wrong.

I too am appalled by the amount of dis-information on here as well.

[Jason White]

Twelve years is not a long time in a profession. I worked at my profession for twenty nine years (not woodworking).

I personally know carpenters who are 3rd or 4th generation with 30+ years of experience. Some of them would agree with the OP's opinions, others would not.

A couple of them are also missing a finger or two.

JW

[John Coloccia]

Larry: I wouldn't normally ask, but it seems very relevant to the topic. How did you lose your finger?

[Dan Friedrichs]

I too am appalled by the amount of dis-information on here as well.

Like what? You think "use push sticks" is dis-information [sic]?

[Matt Ranum]

Being afraid of a tool is worse than having a healthy respect for the tool IMO. My saw too has no guards on it what so ever...and I treat is as such. I have had things happen on tools that startled me but I was also alert enough to know what was happening and avoid injuries. Lots of people around here think a RAS is a dangerous tool, its no more dangerous than anything else. Frank Klausz keeps a painted section on the table on his thats several inches wide as a reminder NOT to put your fingers there.

When I was 18 I got a job in a vegetable canning plant. I screwed up and got a serious injury to my hand. Since then I am very safety conscious even though it doesn't sound like it. I don't believe its necessary to have safety devices in order to be safe. Just watch what the hell your doing. I drove truck professionally for close to a million miles and never had an accident. I know drivers that could barely make it out of the yard without one. The difference? Always be alert and on the defensive.

Now that I've most likely jinxed myself.....I'm heading for work.

[John Pratt]

I have OCD when it comes to shop safety. Especially since I have to watch over others in the shop who are very much novices at using power tools, But even to the safest person, accidents can happen.

This accident was minor compared to others but it shows they can happen anywhere in the shop. I recently purchase the PriceCutter 70 piece router bit set from Eagle America. I needed to augment my top of the line bits with some that I am not as concerned about the novices in my shop tearing up. The bits are placed in plastic holders in the case and they are very tightly wedged to keep them from falling out. While try to get one of the bits out, I wiggled and wiggled the darn thing and finally my fingers slipped along the length or the cutter. The bit came out and sailed across the floor, but left me with a 1 1/2" gash down my index finger all the way to the bone. After I bled like a stuck pig for a few minutes I went to the clinic and got bandaged up.

Demonstrated a few things;

1. Regardless of your experience level and safety conciousness level, even the safest person can get injured in the shop.

2. Even though power tools are where we hedge most towards safety, you can get hurt even in the most mundane areas of the shop.

While others disregard long practiced safety practices, I have my shop safety rules in place for my benefit and more so for the benefit of my shop workers/employees. If one of them is injured in a stupid mistake like I was, it is not only them that feels the pain. Because I am the boss, I have to answer to those injuries in the shop. For those just working in the home shop, if by some chance, you do make a mistake or the unforseen happens, Who else does it affect. Will you kids no longer be able to play catch with you or some other activity, will you Wife now worry every time you go into the shop, etc...

[harry strasil]

John, I too got that set, I removed each bit and wiped the sticky oil from the shanks with denatured alcohol, now they slip in and out easily.

Karl, Larry and I would get along fine I think. We respect our power tools and we know that they are dangerous, that is the most important part.

[Bob Carreiro]

Hi Karl,

You have a lot of nerve to be upfront about your practices. I, too, do not use blade guards or riving knives, although occassionally, I use push sticks on narrow stock.

In my early years I worked as a cabinet maker in a few shops and as a ships joiner in a few small shipyards around New England and never - not once - saw blade guards or riving knives used. To reveal these "ungodly practices" always causes an uproar among those who choose to do otherwise. As you implied, when you follow some simple, no nonscense rules as you've stated (and I didn't read them all) and respect the machine (meaning you have to know its characteristics and what to expect and when), then you can master the operation. Yet when all is said & done, you cannot argue about unforeseen events occurring that are not under your control, such as the time I nearly severed my foot (yes, that's right) on a table saw! Sometimes, though far and few in between, these unexplainable, or "who would've thought..." kinda things happen. It's all about the levels of risk. When you master a machine, the level of risk is low and close to non-existant.

Thanks for your honesty and courage.


Bob Carreiro
Poulsbo, WA

[Doug Shepard]

Well I concur with a lot of your points but I gotta disagree about the push sticks. I just dont like getting my fingers that close to the blade. I probably draw the line around 4" or so. Anything closer and I start looking for a push stick.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Well, Karl, I can say that you are WAY more experienced than I ever will be, but, I would also have to disagree that a guard, riving knife, splitter push sticks are bad. I DO own a saw with a brake and all the safety features that you loathe. I also have Grripper blocks or what ever they're called, to further keep my fingers out of the blade. I do frequently rip stock 1/4" wide. Without the use of any of those safety features, I would not be able to do it.

Personally, I do whatever I can to keep all my fingers. I know 3 people who don't have all thier fingers....

[Peter Aeschliman]

...such as the time I nearly severed my foot (yes, that's right) on a table saw!

Uh, what?!? Can you please elaborate on that story?

[Myk Rian]

When you master a machine, the level of risk is low and close to non-existant.

Sorry, but I can't agree with that. When you master a machine, you get complacent about safety. "I've done that on this machine so many times....." is the attitude. Machines are never safe.

[Nissim Avrahami]

I think that we have to make this post "Sticky" so every beginner, amateur and un-experienced guys will learn from it....and with the promised videos, it's going to be a "Hit"...

I would just change the title to "Table saw safety" or "How to work *Correctly* on a table saw"...

As for me, 13 years in the hobby, no kickback, no "contact" with the blade...

Yes, I use the Riving knife, Blade guard, Push sticks, Feather board and Short fence...

What one must understand is that, not everybody can be an F-16 pilot, Astronaut or F-1 Driver so - if one has the ability and capability to work without all the safety gear, the other one maybe doesn't have this characters...

Are you going to tell all those "incapable" - "If you cannot work without the safety gear without being injured - don't do woodworking???"...

Here are a few pics of how I do it...Yeap, a lot of safety gear but hey, if I feel safe and relaxed when working on the TS...and, please note that I don't see how the blade is cutting but, it does....

BTW, you can push the workpiece and hold it attached to the rip fence but - if it is a "reaction wood" and it springs out, I don't thing that you'll have enough power to hold it attached to the fence and even the riving knife might not help you...

Regards
niki

[Peter Aeschliman]

very cool idea for your "featherboard". I like that.

A little off topic, but I've never understood why TS fences aren't made like yours more often- your fence projects out towards the worker and hangs off the front of the table... I really like that because I sometimes have trouble keeping larger workpieces against the fence since there's only about 10" of fence before the front of the blade...

I think when I build my outfeed table, I'll build an infeed table like yours too!

Thanks for posting those pics.