Anybody watch NYW this weekend?

[Sean Nagle]

I know a guy who builds cabinets without using any plywood, screws, nails, staples or any other "hardware" except for Blum hinges and drawer glides. All of his interiors are made from solid lumber, glued to width. Everything is joined either with dovetails or mortice and tenon. He also does all of his own carving so his doors and drawer faces are often quite ornate and his installations are typically embellished with corbels, pilasters, carved elements, serpentine arches, etc. He works mostly in a hybrid "French Country" style or what we have come to call "California French". His jobs are always done on a time and materials basis and are typically ungodly expensive.

My personal opinion is that it is a waste of precious wood to build solid carcasses for built-ins.

[David DeCristoforo]

"My personal opinion is that it is a waste of precious wood to build solid carcasses for built-ins."

Well, that's the whole thing isn't it? So much of this involves "personal opinion" and preferences. Actually, those solid wood cabinets are quite spectacular. It is obvious even at first glance that there is something "special" about them. When you open the doors, you can immediately tell that they are not made of plywood. They is nothing about them that even resembles "typical" kitchen cabinetry. The question might be posed whether work of that caliber belongs in a kitchen. But there is no question about the obviousness of their quality.

[Paul Johnstone]

I know a guy who builds cabinets without using any plywood, screws, nails, staples or any other "hardware" except for Blum hinges and drawer glides. All of his interiors are made from solid lumber, glued to width. Everything is joined either with dovetails or mortice and tenon.

Not a bash on Norm, but this is the type of show I would love to see.

Norm's method is certainly fine. I did not see the TV show, but I read the magazine article that went with the series. I guess I found the information to be relatively uninspiring and kind of boring, only because Norm showed us the most efficient way to do it (which a lot of us already know).

I understand, the point of the show is to show how to pull off a DIY remodel quickly and cost efficiently, but it does not leave me inspired or entertained. Maybe that's what the OP meant.

[Bill Arnold]

... Norm's method is certainly fine. I did not see the TV show, but I read the magazine article that went with the series. I guess I found the information to be relatively uninspiring and kind of boring, only because Norm showed us the most efficient way to do it (which a lot of us already know).

I understand, the point of the show is to show how to pull off a DIY remodel quickly and cost efficiently, but it does not leave me inspired or entertained. Maybe that's what the OP meant.

The impression I've always had about NYW is that its intent was to encourage the average person to undertake projects they can use inside and outside their homes. Norm did a fair amount of more advanced pieces along the way also but I would never have used some of the techniques he used, probably because I know how to use more concealed joinery whereas the average person wouldn't be concerned about having to fill nail holes.

Although I've watched a majority of the NYW episodes over the years, the only item I've ever built is the workbench he did at some point in the first several years. The main thing I learned from NYW was to have the confidence that I could build something if I just tried.

[Bill Arnold]

"My personal opinion is that it is a waste of precious wood to build solid carcasses for built-ins."

Well, that's the whole thing isn't it? So much of this involves "personal opinion" and preferences. Actually, those solid wood cabinets are quite spectacular. It is obvious even at first glance that there is something "special" about them. When you open the doors, you can immediately tell that they are not made of plywood. They is nothing about them that even resembles "typical" kitchen cabinetry. The question might be posed whether work of that caliber belongs in a kitchen. But there is no question about the obviousness of their quality.

Not a bash on Norm, but this is the type of show I would love to see. ...

Ah, yes! "Wood Works" with David Marks took it to that level. Unfortunately, DIY Network opted not to continue the program.

[Bill Arnold]

... I will let some of you go first.

Hey, Brad! How many more of us have to go first before you chime in?

[Jim Kirkpatrick]

Oh, Brad, we await your enlightened education about what Norm and the rest of us are doing wrong!

Also, on the show, if I recall correctly, these cabinets are not too fancy; particularly where the finish is concerned. Also, no inset doors or drawers, no panel glue-ups, and no beading or other time consuming details. Just your run-of-the-mill cabinets.
[/QUOTE]

Uhhh, actually you stand corrected. The cabinets have inset doors and drawer fronts. Additionally the face frames are beaded on the inset. The drawers have high end, concealed, self-closing slides. These cabinets will last 100+ years.

[Brad Westcott]

WOW!

I am amazed at all the responses.

I can appreciate Norm teaching basic techniques and if that was the intent of the show, then what he demonstrated so far is acceptable for 95% of most builder grade cabinets.

But if were my house and I had Norm Abrams available to build it, I think I would have asked him to show me his best work.

Now I don't recall seeing the series and maybe later he will surprise with me a really cool technology, but so far it does seem to be a 101 of cabinet making. I guess I was hoping to see what a craftsman of Norm's stature would do in a kitchen for cabinets if you let him loose in a friend's home. I do my best work when doing work for friends. I want to keep them.

I am one of the later when it comes to cabinet making for kitchens I do. I do not use any fasteners, nails, screws, etc. Everything is mortis and tenon, I use solid woods, I dado my face frames to the carcass, and it is all glued up. I also don't put a top on my lower cabinets. I see it as a waste of wood. You will never see it and once the plywood for the countertop is down, it is as strong as it will ever need to be for various surfaces.

Again, for what he was building, his techniques are fast, clean, and effective. I was just hoping to learn more from the master.

[Bill Arnold]

... The cabinets have inset doors and drawer fronts. Additionally the face frames are beaded on the inset. The drawers have high end, concealed, self-closing slides. These cabinets will last 100+ years.

Actually, Norm shows examples of inset and overlay doors and drawers. He also shows flat panel and raised panels in doors as well as matching the drawer profile to the raised panels. In addition to those options, he shows six different joinery methods for the face frame.

[Lit Jones]

I copied his technique and material choices almost exactly, but with a few minor tweaks:

• I rabbetted the back so that the top fits into the back. Norm did the reverse, and I never understood why. My method meant that all the dados were on the sides and back. This left the horizontals (bottom, top, (and sometimes middle shelf)) whole, and the dimensions more uniform. The verticles (sides, back) are all the same height, and the horizontals (bottom, shelf, top) are all the same dimension. Much less chance of mistakes that way.
• I made the sub-bases as separate units. This is a more efficient use of the plywood, as you can get 6 base cabinet sides from a single sheet. I also think that the install is easier with separate sub-bases.
• My dados and rabbets were 3/8 " deep versus Norm's 1/4" ones.

I found that careful measurement, cutting, and a decent panel sled to assure squareness insured that the cabinets went together perfectly square. The dados and rabbets made sure of this. The cabinets are certainly heavier than store-bought ones, but they sure are solid.

[sean m. titmas]

I do. I do not use any fasteners, nails, screws, etc. Everything is mortis and tenon, I use solid woods, I dado my face frames to the carcass, and it is all glued up. I also don't put a top on my lower cabinets. I see it as a waste of wood. You will never see it and once the plywood for the countertop is down, it is as strong as it will ever need to be for various surfaces.

Do you use plywood for the carcasses? or do you use solid wood?
From you comment about a full top being a waste of wood i would assume that you use some plywood for the boxes but than you say that you use only solid wood. Dont you find that to be a conflict of beliefs? in one breath you say a full top is a waste of wood and in the next breath you say you dont use ply but rather solid wood for the boxes. What gives?

[Sean Nagle]

On another point, I would contend that painted cabinets are not necessarily "low-end". Laying down paint worthy of furniture or even built-ins is no easy, nor cheap task.

[Joe Wiliams]

IMO... The NYW is a 'teaching' type of show for the average homeowner like most of the PBS DIY line up rather than a 'show off, look what I can do' show.

Those of you who have a number years of experience under your tool belt expecting to learn something new are expecting too much.

[David DeCristoforo]

"I was just hoping to learn more from the master."

Well, therein lies the rub. (Wait. Let me get down behind this rock first, just to be safe...) Norm is really not "the master". He has never portrayed himself as such. As many have pointed out, he is more of a teacher of the basics of making. His techniques have improved over the years but he has never taken a "lofty" approach to anything. This is one of the reasons he has had such universal appeal.

[Scott Hildenbrand]

Just like my old shop teacher.