Need advice on cyclone

[JIM HERNANDEZ]

I currently have a delta 50-760 and am trying to decide if an upgrade to a cyclone would make a difference. I only have one 220volt line and so am limited to a dust collector that would work on 120v . When I look at Oneida's offerings that work on 120 I see that their cfm ratings and static pressure ratings are no better than the delta. I feel like I must be ignoring something because everyone raves about the oneida cyclones. Please help me decide if an upgrade makes sense . Thanks in advance for your help.

Jim

[glenn bradley]

Your 120v restriction is seriously limiting the field. I'm sure you can see this when comparing models. A cyclone, by nature, impedes the flow of air and requires more power to move a given amount of air. The near equal numbers of the lower powered cyclone is a testament to good design. I don't usually hear folks clamoring for a cyclone because it moves more air (although most people are upgrading from a small bag unit so that comes along for the ride). Filks are usually after the filtering and the separation characteristics; at least I was.

To move the kind of air that will really be a jump in performance, in a cyclone format, would probably take a near doubling of your current HP motor and all the associated voodoo that goes with it. The thing that moved me to a cyclone format was the better separation and filtering. I was sorely tempted to go with a high power bag unit just because they move so much air. The size of better top bags or the cost of filters to achieve the filtering I was after made this unattractive (and I would still be changing those darn bags). The cyclone was also a smaller footprint so, here I am, a happy cyclone owner (but I ran more 220 to support it). YMMV.

[Harold Shay]

Jim I think you can use the super dust deputy in fornt of you unit and it will work well I have tried to give you a link that shows on from smc.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...84#post1169184
good luck.
I have one direct in connettion with my jet 1100. Infact I took the blower and motor and hooke them direct. there is a link for that also. I am not affiliated with oneida but they sure have a great product in this one.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...73#post1180073
Harold

[J.R. Rutter]

Having a clean filter will let you get the most from your collector. A cyclone in front plus more filter surface area out the back would help with that.

[Rick Fisher]

Spend some money on a couple more 220V plugs..

Dust collector should be as big as you can afford.. 3hp - 5hp ..

[Rod Sheridan]

Spend some money on a couple more 220V plugs..

Dust collector should be as big as you can afford.. 3hp - 5hp ..

Now I'm getting cyclone envy. My poor Oneida is only 1.5HP

Regards, Rod.

[Bill Arnold]

Spend some money on a couple more 220V plugs..

Dust collector should be as big as you can afford.. 3hp - 5hp ..

I agree with the comment about additional 220V capability, but not everyone has the budget for more outlets.

A 5hp unit in a home shop? Well, maybe. I have a 3hp Oneida SDG that will suck up all the chips, dust and small animals you put in front of it from as much as 60' away!

[Ben Hatcher]

Jim, I added a Super Dust Deputy to my 110v 50-760. I really like it. As you can see, I added a canister filter, too. I called Wynn environmental and they sold me a 35A style filter made with their .2 micron nano fiber. It isn’t on their site, but if you call, you can get one. You can see on their site an example install on the 50-760. The foam ring on the filter fits perfectly around the outside rim of the DC outlet so installation was super easy. I added some weather stripping inside the ring exactly as shown in the pictures on their site. I swear the CFM went up significantly over the 1 micron bag that came with the 50-760. I don’t have test equipment but holding my hand in front of the intake before and after lead me to believe that there was a noticeable improvement with the canister, even with the cyclone installed.

Thought not hooked up in this shot, my longest run is probably just over 25'. I'm running all PVC with large radius bends, 6" mains and 4" and 6" drops. Last night, I decided to test the flow at that furthest point. I had a bucket of pine chips from the drill press sitting around. Those seemed to me to be a good test sample since they had a relatively large weight/surface area. My thinking goes that if there’s enough air to pull these things through the lines, there’s enough to pull in fine dust. I am pleased to report that there were no problems at all! It sucked them all up off the floor, 8' up to the ceiling, and 20’ more back to the cyclone. All of the chips went into the drum. Not a single one made it into the bag under the filter. I did the same with some sander dust and that, too, went up the chute without an issue. I haven’t inspected the filter yet, but from what I can tell looking up through the plastic collection bag, it looks pretty clean. It has only been in use for a few hours, but when I tap on the sides, nothing drops down. Perhaps more importantly, nothing comes through the filter either. When I tapped on the old 1 micron bag, I’d get a cloud of dust that came through the bag.

The super dust deputy was about $300 and the filter was another $150 or so. Add the $350 I paid for the DC and the total without plumbing is about $800. I’m not sure I could buy anything that worked better for even for 50% more than that.

[John Thompson]

I currently have a delta 50-760 and am trying to decide if an upgrade to a cyclone would make a difference. I only have one 220volt line and so am limited to a dust collector that would work on 120v . When I look at Oneida's offerings that work on 120 I see that their cfm ratings and static pressure ratings are no better than the delta. I feel like I must be ignoring something because everyone raves about the oneida cyclones. Please help me decide if an upgrade makes sense . Thanks in advance for your help.

Jim

Jim... I am going to go against the grain here on simply adding a few more 220 V plugs. Your current wiring for your single 220 V line is probably either 12 gauge (maybe 10 gauge) if you have a 20 A breaker or 10 gauge if you have a 30 A breaker for that line. But.. by just adding another outlet on the same line is going to pose a problem.

Cyclones with their larger motors (read Glenn on why as to increasind air flow) will usually pull over 20 A's running. If you are have 3 HP machines you are pulling the the high end of teens in amps. So.. over 20 A on the cyclone and say 16 A on the machine off the same line with 30 A breaker is pulling in the high 30's on amps and more than your breaker capacity. If you have a 5 HP TS and 5 HP planer as I do pulling over 20 A'sm on those machines.. you are pulling over 40 A's and you will need a 50 amp breaker which is going to require 6 gauge wire.

When I upgraded to a cyclone I had to add an additional 10 gauge 220 V line and breaker so the cyclone ran on one line and the large machines I would use simutaneously ran on the other 220 V. The numbers for using one line will simply not just add up if that line is 10 gauge with 30 A circuit and that will cause over-load and potential fire hazards.

So.. if you intend not to add a second line and your current unit is working at approximately the same cfm as the Oneida that runs on 110 V... I suggest you forget the upgrade and save the money until you decide you can and will run that second 220 V line. Common sense trumps the need to have a tauted product that won't really upgrade you in the scenario you have provided sticking with the limitation of 220 V for machine and 110 V for collector IMO.

Good luck...

[John Harden]

Jim, I added a Super Dust Deputy to my 110v 50-760. I really like it. As you can see, I added a canister filter, too. I called Wynn environmental and they sold me a 35A style filter made with their .2 micron nano fiber. It isn’t on their site, but if you call, you can get one. You can see on their site an example install on the 50-760. The foam ring on the filter fits perfectly around the outside rim of the DC outlet so installation was super easy. I added some weather stripping inside the ring exactly as shown in the pictures on their site. I swear the CFM went up significantly over the 1 micron bag that came with the 50-760. I don’t have test equipment but holding my hand in front of the intake before and after lead me to believe that there was a noticeable improvement with the canister, even with the cyclone installed.

Thought not hooked up in this shot, my longest run is probably just over 25'. I'm running all PVC with large radius bends, 6" mains and 4" and 6" drops. Last night, I decided to test the flow at that furthest point. I had a bucket of pine chips from the drill press sitting around. Those seemed to me to be a good test sample since they had a relatively large weight/surface area. My thinking goes that if there’s enough air to pull these things through the lines, there’s enough to pull in fine dust. I am pleased to report that there were no problems at all! It sucked them all up off the floor, 8” up into the rafters, and 20’ more back to the cyclone. All of the chips went into the drum. Not a single one made it into the bag under the filter. I did the same with some sander dust and that, too, went up the chute without an issue. I haven’t inspected the filter yet, but from what I can tell looking up through the plastic collection bag, it looks pretty clean. It has only been in use for a few hours, but when I tap on the sides, nothing drops down. Perhaps more importantly, nothing comes through the filter either. When I tapped on the old 1 micron bag, I’d get a cloud of dust that came through the bag.

The super dust deputy was about $300 and the filter was another $150 or so. Add the $350 I paid for the DC and the total without plumbing is about $800. I’m not sure I could buy anything that worked better for even for 50% more than that.

Ben, that's an amazingly clever setup and use of a dust deputy!!!! You leveraged the motor and impellor from your single stage unit and snuck the dust deputy in below!!!

I particularly like the leg extensions you added to gain the height necessary.

Well done!!!!!!!!!

Regards,

John

[Rick Fisher]

Just to clarify... When I said " add more 220V plugs"... I meant with breakers..

My DC has a dedicated breaker..

My Bandsaw, Planer, Jointer all share a circuit..

Its a one man shop, I can only run one at a time..


On dust collectors, I think they are, or should be the most used machine in the shop.. Regardless of what machine your using, the DC will be chugging along in the background..

A 1.5hp machine is great for collecting chips from a Jointer or Planer.. If you have the machinery disease... which runs rampant around these halls, you might find yourself getting into sanders down the road....

Edge sanders are lousy on Dust collection... drum sanders and wide belts scoff at smaller dust collectors...

"3hp - 5 hp" comment is simply a range... The thing is, your only buying one.. Its not like your buying gasoline... lol..

Other than that fella who had the plywood sucked off his tablesaw by overhead collection.. few people complain that there dust collector sucks too hard.. If your only buying one, might as well get the most powerfull machine the first time... rather than realizing you need a bigger one down the road..

Installing a couple of breakers and some plugs isnt horribly expensive.. Its part of the hobby..

On powertools, its cheaper to buy the biggest model first..

[John Harden]

Other than that fella who had the plywood sucked off his tablesaw by overhead collection.. few people complain that there dust collector sucks too hard.. If your only buying one, might as well get the most powerfull machine the first time... rather than realizing you need a bigger one down the road..

Installing a couple of breakers and some plugs isnt horribly expensive.. Its part of the hobby..

On powertools, its cheaper to buy the biggest model first..

+1 on what Rick said. I have a 2HP Onieda rated at 1200 cfm. It's been in the shop about 5 years now and it was awesome when I first bought it. If I could do it again, I'd probably get a 4-5 hp version for the extra cfm. Most of my stationary tools are 220V with dedicated plugs for each (I installed a sub-panel) and the saw/shaper and J/P each require about 1000 cfm at the tool to work at their optimum. With the duct length, turns and flex hose, I figure I'll be right at 1000 or just under.

More is better, though it comes at a cost both in dollars and noise. My 2hp Oneida is a LOT quieter than my neighbors 3hp (Both pro models), even though his has a silencer and mine does not. Must be the larger impeller he has.

I won't be selling mine for a larger model until I absolutely outgrow it, which is hopefull never. I just need to remember to keep every blast gate closed except for the one I'm using at the moment.

Ideally, I'd have a 5hp version that moves 2000 cfm or close to it, outside the shop in a ventilated shed, but that's not in the cards.

Regards,

John

[Paul Johnstone]

If you have the money to buy a cyclone, but only 220 V is holding you back, why not put more 220 V circuits? It's relatively simple, and even if you have to pay someone, it's not that expensive.

I agree that the DC should be on a dedicated circuit.

[Mac McQuinn]

Jim, I added a Super Dust Deputy to my 110v 50-760. I really like it. As you can see, I added a canister filter, too. I called Wynn environmental and they sold me a 35A style filter made with their .2 micron nano fiber. It isn’t on their site, but if you call, you can get one. You can see on their site an example install on the 50-760. The foam ring on the filter fits perfectly around the outside rim of the DC outlet so installation was super easy. I added some weather stripping inside the ring exactly as shown in the pictures on their site. I swear the CFM went up significantly over the 1 micron bag that came with the 50-760. I don’t have test equipment but holding my hand in front of the intake before and after lead me to believe that there was a noticeable improvement with the canister, even with the cyclone installed.

Thought not hooked up in this shot, my longest run is probably just over 25'. I'm running all PVC with large radius bends, 6" mains and 4" and 6" drops. Last night, I decided to test the flow at that furthest point. I had a bucket of pine chips from the drill press sitting around. Those seemed to me to be a good test sample since they had a relatively large weight/surface area. My thinking goes that if there’s enough air to pull these things through the lines, there’s enough to pull in fine dust. I am pleased to report that there were no problems at all! It sucked them all up off the floor, 8' up to the ceiling, and 20’ more back to the cyclone. All of the chips went into the drum. Not a single one made it into the bag under the filter. I did the same with some sander dust and that, too, went up the chute without an issue. I haven’t inspected the filter yet, but from what I can tell looking up through the plastic collection bag, it looks pretty clean. It has only been in use for a few hours, but when I tap on the sides, nothing drops down. Perhaps more importantly, nothing comes through the filter either. When I tapped on the old 1 micron bag, I’d get a cloud of dust that came through the bag.

The super dust deputy was about $300 and the filter was another $150 or so. Add the $350 I paid for the DC and the total without plumbing is about $800. I’m not sure I could buy anything that worked better for even for 50% more than that.

Ben,

Your set-up is great and thought provoking although it seems like the following would be as powerful considering it's 110V draw and a bit more space conscious. And it's price is not too far off the mark.
http://store.oneida-air.com/15hpmini-gorilla.aspx

Mac

[JIM HERNANDEZ]

Thank you so much for all the great advice ! I will have to check with my electrician to see if another 220v line is possible. I may be maxed out on the panel. If not, sounds like that is the way to go. Again, thank you all for the advice.

Jim