[OP]
Member
Scraper or Scraper Plane
Hi! I was offered an opportunity to get a Stanley #80, and it has set me to wondering what the current wisdom is about scrapers and scraper planes. What is most useful for general use: scraper only, a scraper and a veritas holder, a cabinet scraper (how do the Veritas and the Stanley compare), or a scraping plane. Yes, I know it is a rather large topic, but I thought that I should check it out. Thanks, Lloyd
Old age can be better than the alternative.
Member
Hi Lloyd,Originally Posted by Lloyd Robins
Hi! I was offered an opportunity to get a Stanley #80, and it has set me to wondering what the current wisdom is about scrapers and scraper planes. What is most useful for general use: scraper only, a scraper and a veritas holder, a cabinet scraper (how do the Veritas and the Stanley compare), or a scraping plane. Yes, I know it is a rather large topic, but I thought that I should check it out. Thanks, Lloyd
I'm no expert, but I am up early, so I'll give you the dubious benefit of my nearly non-existant experience and what I try to pass off as wisdom.
I think that for all around, general usage, a scraper -- or several -- is your best (and cheapest) bet. I made a couple from a messed up saw blade and they work pretty well. I'm sure the store-bought kind would probably be even better. As for the Veritas holder, I'd hold-off on that -- (pun intended) -- until you see if you feel like you need it. In other words, use a plane scraper for a while and see if your fingers get sore from hold it. If so, buy (or make) a holder.What is most useful for general use: scraper only, a scraper and a veritas holder, a cabinet scraper ... or a scraping plane.
I've never used a scraping plane, and I hope that they don't work for beans, because they are just too darn expensive for my cheap tastes -- not to mention my extremely tight budget.
As for the differences between the Stanley #80 and the Veritas, there seem to be two.
First, the Stanley can be had for much less money. I got mine for $10 off ebay. It has a little bit of rust that I need to deal with, the blade is halfway used up, and a couple of of the thumb screws have apparently been lost, as they have been replaced with other types of screws. Still, not bad for $10. You can get one in much better condition for probably $20-$25. The Veritas model will set you back $59.95.
Second, Veritas says they have added some improvements to the design.Lee Valley/Veritas is, IMHO, a wonderful company to do business with. Their customer service is exemplary, their quality is high, and many of their prices are surprisingly low compared to other tool dealers. So, I guess it really comes down to whether you think the improvements, plus being able to use the thing right out of the box, are worth the extra money.We have designed this tool with several improvements over what is usually known as the #80 cabinet scraper. To allow the user to apply pressure directly in line with the cutting edge and prevent the blade catching when the scraper runs off the end of the workpiece, the sole is longer and the handles have been placed further back and slightly lower than seen in other scrapers. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...D=&ccurrency=1
Tom
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James Krenov says that "the craftsman lives in a
condition where the size of his public is almost in
inverse proportion to the quality of his work."
(James Krenov, A Cabinetmaker's Notebook, 1976.)
I guess my public must be pretty huge then.
Member
general use - card scraper.
cabinet scraper is best for glue clean up or spot clean up on bench tops or boards/panels.
scraper plane is best when you need to surface a board or panel with a scraper - normally due to difficult grain/pattern/wood.
Those would be the opinions of a relative newbie. I'll also throw in my experience that scrapers are where you want multiple irons/blades...especially the scraper plane. The burr or edge (if you prefer not to burnish the edge) is more fragile than a standard plane iron edge.
I've gotten all my scrapers (cards, cabinet and plane) from Lee Valley/Veritas and I'm quite happy with their performance....though you may gather from other threads that I'm not too keen on antique tools.
Tim
on the neverending quest for wood.....
Member
I don't know how to do woodworking without scrapers. I have a handful of card scrapers and a stanley #80. I also built my own woodie scraper plane and love them all. I generally use scrapers to put a final finish on a project and only give it a slight bit of sanding. With an oil finish I have found that a scraped surface is much superior to a sanded finish.
As mentioned above they excel at difficult grain and figured woods.
Plus, the thin little shavings are so much nicer than dust to clean up.
Member
TOTALLY KEWL!
Did you use a plan, make it up as you went along, or what?
Would you care to share specs?
I've been thinking along sort of those same lines, i.e., I've been thinking about trying to turn a spare woodie into a scraper plane, but I'm not really sure if that would be easier than starting from scratch.I'd really appreciate your opinion on the idea. (That goes for everybody!)
TIA,
Tom
---------------------------------------
James Krenov says that "the craftsman lives in a
condition where the size of his public is almost in
inverse proportion to the quality of his work."
(James Krenov, A Cabinetmaker's Notebook, 1976.)
I guess my public must be pretty huge then.
Contributor
I have no experience with this subject, but why should that stop me from jumping in? I recall on my HNT Gordon smoother, which I htink is bedded at 60 degrees, that the directions say that if you have a 30 deg. honing angle, and reverse the blade to a bevel up configuration, Gordon says it can be a scraper. With that thought, maybe one could just take a regular old woodie smoother, and gring a honing angle to match the bedding angle so that the edge is at 90 deg., and then sharpen and turn a hook, if desired. Just a thought.
Alan
Guest
HNT Gordon's do make great scraper planes, simply by reversing the blade. When used as a scraper the blade edge gets rounded over, so you probably want to get a spare blade for this. You don't need to hook the blade at all.
However, the LV scraping plane is pretty cheap and has a couple of very desirable features, so it may be a better plane to buy than the Gordon if you simply want a scraper.
As to making a wooden one from scratch, it would be on the same level of difficulty as making a scrub - very simple. And even simpler if you make a Japanese scraper since you need no wedge, even given the subtleties of Japanese planes.
Pam
Member
Never stops me.
That sounds like a capital idea.I recall on my HNT Gordon smoother, which I htink is bedded at 60 degrees, that the directions say that if you have a 30 deg. honing angle, and reverse the blade to a bevel up configuration, Gordon says it can be a scraper. With that thought, maybe one could just take a regular old woodie smoother, and gring a honing angle to match the bedding angle so that the edge is at 90 deg., and then sharpen and turn a hook, if desired. Just a thought.
Alan
Perhaps I should cut away part of the bed in order to give the shavings someplace to go? I could compensate by replacing the standard "Y" shaped wedge with one that goes all the way across the blade. In fact, if I were to sink a threaded insert into such a full-width wedge, I think I could put a knurled bolt/screw through it to bow the blade.
Does that make sense?
---------------------------------------
James Krenov says that "the craftsman lives in a
condition where the size of his public is almost in
inverse proportion to the quality of his work."
(James Krenov, A Cabinetmaker's Notebook, 1976.)
I guess my public must be pretty huge then.
Member
Tom, a few years ago there was a really nice plan for a scraper plane in Shop Notes. I made one from the plans but I have not been able to locate the magazine or the plans so that I could relate it to you. Not much help,huh?TOTALLY KEWL!
Did you use a plan, make it up as you went along, or what?
Would you care to share specs?
I've been thinking along sort of those same lines, i.e., I've been thinking about trying to turn a spare woodie into a scraper plane, but I'm not really sure if that would be easier than starting from scratch.
TIA,
Tom
Big Mike
I have done so much with so little for so long I am now qualified to do anything with nothing......
P.S. If you are interested in plans for any project that I post, just put some money in an envelope and mail it to me and I will keep it.
[OP]
Member
Try this site http://www.popularwoodworking.com/fe...ea.asp?id=1093 . It might be one to try out.
Old age can be better than the alternative.
Member
Lloyd,
That's AWESOME!
Thanks, I've printed it out and will probably give it a shot one of these days.
---------------------------------------
James Krenov says that "the craftsman lives in a
condition where the size of his public is almost in
inverse proportion to the quality of his work."
(James Krenov, A Cabinetmaker's Notebook, 1976.)
I guess my public must be pretty huge then.
Contributor
Tom,
Great idea. I think I will keep my eyes open for a junker to convert. The threaded insert is a very tidy addition. Right now, all of my smoothers are too good to convert, even if I do not use them all, or often.
Alan
Member
I have a Stanley #80 and a set of scrapers. I find the scrapers (with the Veritas holder) easier to use and control for final (or close to final) finishing. Also, once they are tuned, it is relatively easy to renew the "hook".
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