Dovetail Saws!

[gary Zimmel]

Hi Rick.

How do you like that new xcut saw from Rob.
I picked mine up a couple of weeks ago at the show here.

Nice saw, real nice.

In my opinion John the saws from Rob are first rate.
I learnt to do dovetails with the LN but my go to dovetail saw now is Robs.
This new xcut saw is just as good IMHO.

If they are in your budget they are really worth a look...

[Phillip Pattee]

Here is a list of quality western style saws that you can check out. Many of them have already been mentioned, but there are a few others here for you to check out. Lots of choices these days.

Lee Valley Veritas dovetail saw
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=64007&cat=1,42884
Wenzloff & Sons at Lee Valley dovetail saw
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=57113&cat=1,42884,57152
Wenzloff & Sons at the Best Things the Kenyon style
http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/wenzloff_saws.htm
Lie-Nielsen dovetail saw
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1237
Lie-Nielsen dovetail saw sold by Craftsman Studio (free shipping over $75) This store also sells the Veritas saw, but it is <$75.
http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/A500.htm
Gramercy dovetail saw from Tools for Working Wood
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Produ ct_Code=GT-DSAW9.XX&Category_Code=TS

Adria dovetail saw
http://www.adriatools.com/handsaw/dovetail_saw.html
Eccentric Tools dovetail Saw
http://www.eccentricwoodcraft.com/page3_toolworks.html
Spehar Tools dovetail saw
http://spehar-toolworks.com/dovetailsaws.html
Medallion Toolworks dovetail saw
http://www.medalliontools.com/OurDovetailSaws.html
Thomas Flynn & Co. makers of Pax, Lynx, Roberts & Lee, and Crown dovetail saws
http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/acatalog/Pax_Range.html
Adam Cherubini dovetail saw
http://www.adamcherubini.com/Dovetail_Saws.html
There are also other saw makers, but they don’t specifically advertise a dovetail saw. The one that comes to mind is Technoprimitives.
Bad Axe Toolworks (Technoprimitives)
http://www.technoprimitives.com/bad_axe_tool_works_saws

[Sean Hughto]

Hmmm ... "that much better?" What do you think?

Is a Lexus that much better than a Mercedes or BMW or Audi or Porsche or Ferrari or Cadillac or ....????

It's a matter of preference. Can you already cut good dovetails? Because I've tried a lot of quality saws and I have to say that they all were far better than good enough. Will people have favorites? Sure. But my favorite will not necessarily be yours anymore with luxury dovetail saws than with luxury automobiles. Find one that appeals to you and give it a try. If you think another might suit you better after a while, buy it, and if it does, you will almost assuredly have no trouble selling your old one if you need to for a very good price. Quality holds its value.

[george wilson]

Most of my finest work before I got into saw making,and before most,if not all of these new high class saws came along, was done with old Disston back saws,and a few thinner German dovetail saws made in the 50's and 60's.

Personally,I use only my .015" original Groves dovetail,and other .015" dovetail saws I made,for cutting dovetails. I find the very thin kerf is more inducive to accurate work.

I think saw makers are afraid to make them that thin,though some very old originals were made so. I think they are afraid users might easily kink them,etc. I never had a problem with any of the .015" saws we made for Williamsburg shops,and they were the most highly prized of all our saws in shops where precision work is done.

[Larry Fox]

There is Wenzloff & Sons, who curently carry two line of saws, one sold by LV and the other one by The Best Thing.

Not to hijack the thread but can someone explain the difference? I have one I bought from Lee Valley pretty much as soon as they started selling them.

Thanks in advance for your time.

[Derek Cohen]

Most of my finest work before I got into saw making,and before most,if not all of these new high class saws came along, was done with old Disston back saws,and a few thinner German dovetail saws made in the 50's and 60's.

Personally,I use only my .015" original Groves dovetail,and other .015" dovetail saws I made,for cutting dovetails. I find the very thin kerf is more inducive to accurate work.

I think saw makers are afraid to make them that thin,though some very old originals were made so. I think they are afraid users might easily kink them,etc. I never had a problem with any of the .015" saws we made for Williamsburg shops,and they were the most highly prized of all our saws in shops where precision work is done.

Hi George

I'm curious about the amount of set on your Groves. It does not make much sense to me to have a thin blade with much, if any, set at all. If so, what about binding - a thinner blade will be more vulnerable to buckling - so do you wax your blade? Do you need to do so?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Graham Hughes (CA)]

Not to hijack the thread but can someone explain the difference? I have one I bought from Lee Valley pretty much as soon as they started selling them.

The LV ones are sort of "modern traditional" designs, and are very similar visually to the Gramercy, the Lie-Nielsens, etc. They're different but different in detail. The Kenyon saws are very different; I'm not 100% sure I like them but they're definitely unique.

[Graham Hughes (CA)]

I've used about half the saws on your list and they're all excellent. With one exception; the Flynn/Pax/whatever saws come with way too much set, are not as sharp as I would have expected, don't seem to be tensioned properly and have blocky handles. In addition to all of this I find a 20 tpi dovetail saw to be very irritating to use in anything thicker than a drawer side. I find it took me a similar amount of effort to get the Pax up to speed as it did to tune up an old backsaw and I still prefer the backsaw. Since their prices are not that much different from some of the other premium saw prices I would pass on them personally.

[Jim Koepke]

How much difference is there in how makers cut teeth into metal?

Other than the points to the inch and the rake what really makes one saw more desirable than another?

My Disston from the 1950s can make good square cross cuts.

My older Bishop saw can rip cut quite straight.

If my fancy were to buy a new saw, the feel of the handle would likely have a lot to do with my purchase. That is the main complaint against my current users. A thinner saw plate may also be nice.

If a saw could leave the sides of a kerf as smooth as planed wood, then I would be doing what ever it would take to convince my wife that we needed one or two as the case may be.

Cutting new teeth on one saw taught me a few mistakes was not the end of the world. There is another old saw plate that needs teeth and a handle in the shop. When a bit of spare time comes along something will be done with that.

Maybe one of my old pull saw blades can get filed down and turned into a western back saw.

jim

[Rick Erickson]

Gary - love the xcut saw. can't wait for a panel saw :-)

John - good question. When you get to this price range any of the saws will cut well (assuming they are set properly). I liken it to the difference between a Lee Valley plane and a Lie-Nielsen plane. Both are nice planes but the Lie-Nielsen takes the quality and fit-n-finish a step further. Rob does the same with his saw. I was cutting DTs just fne with my Lie-Nielsen but then took them up a notch with Rob's saw. The tooth design, weight, feel, etc. is a step above Lie-Nielsen (IMO). I think the thing that sets it over the edge for me is the weight - it makes for VERY little effort when cutting. If you are cutting a lot of DTs or any other joint for that matter this is a must have (IMO).

Don't get me wrong. Many of the saws listed on this thread will do you just fine. Sean stated it perfectly. I guess I'm just a Ferrari kinda guy.

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Not to hijack the thread but can someone explain the difference? I have one I bought from Lee Valley pretty much as soon as they started selling them.

Thanks in advance for your time.

Hello Larry,

If you are asking about the difference between the W&S saws from either LV or TBT...there are a couple differences. Most differences are in the "it doesn't matter" category.

The main usable difference is that the LV DT saw is 15 ppi, the TBT is 16 ppi. Both use the same thickness steel steel (0.020"). Both have 9" blades.

Other differences are: the LV uses solid brass that is slotted to retain the blade, the TBT uses traditional folded brass. The LV uses Bubinga for the handle, the TBT European Beech. There is a slightly different hang of the handle as we simply pattern them after two different English makers. The LV Moulson replica is a slightly longer hand-hold than the Kenyon replica. The LV has a parallel toothline to back, the TBT Kenyon is slightly tapered so the toe is lower than at the heel.

That's pretty much it.

Take care, Mike

[Larry Fox]

Wow, thanks Mike and everyone else who responded, this is very helpful. I absolutely love the saw that I have - feels great to me.

[Rick Erickson]

Awesome Larry - that looks like one sweet saw. Would like to get my hands on one to try it out.

Mike - if you are still reading - I looked on the LV site and it states the DT ppi is 14. If that is wrong you may want to let them know.

[Pedder Petersen]

Mike - if you are still reading - I looked on the LV site and it states the DT ppi is 14. If that is wrong you may want to let them know.

Hi Rick,

LeeValley states 14tpi wich is the same as 15ppi.

BTW: I never understood the reason for ppi. It seams unlogical to me: If you have a 10" saw filed 13ppi how much points has the saw? 120? 121? And what does 4 1/2ppi mean????

Cheers
Pedder

[John Coloccia]

You guys have talked me into trying out Cosman's dovetail saw. I beileve I will go to Wenzloff for a crosscut/carcass saw. There's just something about the Lee Valley's that I just can't bring myself to ordering it, I'm afraid. I wish there was a store around here that I could just see one in person. That might change my mind.

Thanks for all the help.